Your Top 20 Middleweights..

Discussion in 'Boxing / MMA' started by Southpaw, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. Southpaw

    Southpaw Registered Member

    Some of the names you don't see will appear on a forthcoming super middleweight list..

    1. Carlos Monzon
    2. Ray Robinson
    3. Marvin Hagler
    4. Roy Jones
    5. Bernard Hopkins
    6. Stanley Ketchel
    7. Harry Grebb
    8. James Toney
    9. Bob Fitzsimmons
    10. Mickey Walker
    11. Dick Tiger
    12. Jake LaMotta
    13. Marcel Cerdan
    14. Emile Griffith
    15. Tony Zale
    16. Gene Fullmer
    17. Nino Benvenuti
    18. Rocky Graziano
    19. Carmen Basilio
    20. Paul Pender

    I'm sure Les Darcy would have been on this list had he lived long enough to win the title.. Bobo Olson is bugging me also.. Good fighter, but I don't think his resume was particularly good.. Always seemed to lose the big ones.. Tommy Ryan's another one.. He was the 1st recognized champ, who had a good record, but never fought anyone too good.. Lost the title to Kid McCoy, who was a game but limited fighter.. Also, I've decided to rate Ray Leonard at welter &/or light middle, to make an extra space..
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2009

  2. Thunder

    Thunder Registered Member

    Hard for me to make a top 20.I''ll do a top 5:


    Interestingly you put Monzon as first many)including me) put Robinson exclusevily at no 1.But I will say the argentinian was a great fighter,very fluid,very relaxed,he was something else a great fighter.But in terms of resume there is no question Robinson is substantially better.
    I don't see no reason at all to put Roy Jones there.
    I rank Basilio as a welterweight.Maybe Fitssimmons shouldn't be on MWs either.It's up for debate.
    I also think Hopkins is overrated.

    I'd ask where would you put McClellan?
  3. Southpaw

    Southpaw Registered Member

    I like to be different, & although Robinson has the better resume, I can't see him or anyone else beating Monzon.. Robinson struggled with 1or2 fighters who Monzon would walk through.. As well as the things you have mentioned, he was an absolutely huge middleweight, who seemed impervious to pain..
    Fitzsimmons was more successful at middle than any other weight.. He held the title for 4 years.. Recently, Boxrec did a computer rating of all the middleweights, & Fitzsimmons came 2nd! 1 below Robinson..
    What's the problem with Jones? He beat both Hopkins & Toney at middle and was undefeated champion of the world..
    Hopkins is a matter of opinion, but love him or hate him, he holds the world record of 18 title defenses, & has never been knocked out.. How many fighters can say that?
    Basilio was quite active at middle, but I'll rate him at welter to..
    Due to lack of space, I was going to rate McClellan at Super Middle with Kessler, Calzaghe etc.. As a middle he'd come in about 6 or 7..
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
  4. Thunder

    Thunder Registered Member

    Nah,Jones hasn't done much at middle.The Toney fight was at supermiddle.

    He beat Hopkins,Malinga,Tate,Vaca and Castro at middle as his best wins.Nothing close to beiing an ATG.
  5. Southpaw

    Southpaw Registered Member

    Yes.. My mistake with Toney.. Soon after Hopkins at a new weight, kinda pioneered by Ray Leonard.. They were confusing times for any follower..

    Still siding with Jones on this one.. In my opinion, it's not just resume that comes into it.. It's how I consider he may perform against other ATG's.. IE: Comparisons of hand speed, stamina, natural ability, etc And of course resume.. But there again, the same can be said about Marciano, Louis & Dempsey.. It's not all about resume for me.. My lists are usually compiled on the basis of top champs from all eras fighting each other 3 times..

    Jones had tremendous speed at middle.. One of the fastest hard punchers of all time.. He was 26-0 (23 KO's) at middle, & beat a prime Hopkins convincingly.. Castro,Tate,Garcia,Cherino & Malinga were no slouches either.. He KO'd Malinga, & not many people did that, if any!

    Once again, it's all down to opinion.. I'll obviously rate him at Super middle, but not lhwt or hwt..
  6. Thunder

    Thunder Registered Member

    That means you'd rate him probably the best H2H cuz to me resume and accomplishments have big importance a lot.
  7. Southpaw

    Southpaw Registered Member

    Is that why your lists are incredibly short?
    I'd be interested on how you view the big picture..
    In order to do this many things have to be considered..
  8. Thunder

    Thunder Registered Member


    I mean Vitali Klitschko H2H is probably one of the best ever but as far as accomplishmnets he is way,way to unproven to be ranked.
  9. Southpaw

    Southpaw Registered Member

    4 sure.. That's why I haven't rated either Klit as yet..
  10. Babe_Ruth

    Babe_Ruth Sultan of Swat Staff Member V.I.P.

    1 Carlos Monzon
    2 Marvin Hagler, same class with Monzon,they called him marvelous for a reason.
    3 Harry Greb
    4 Stanley Ketchel
    5 Marcel Cerdan, the first non-American to win a world middleweight title
    6 Jake "Raging Bull" LaMotta
    7 Bernard Hopkins
    8 Mickey Walker
    9 Tony Zale
    10 Sugar Ray Robinson ( i do not consider him a true middleweight though,that is why he ranks so low)
    11 Rocky Graziano
    12 Nino Benvenuti
    13 Chris Eubank, unbeaten in 28 middleweight contests
    14 Fred Apostoli
    15 Joey Giardello

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