Your Top 20 Heavyweights..

Discussion in 'Boxing / MMA' started by Southpaw, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Southpaw

    Southpaw Registered Member

    Here's where everyone differs.. I'm sure mine's as disagreeable as the next.. I think everyone has a hidden bias on who they were brought up with or who they've seen the most of over the years.. Some fighters that are low on my list, will end up high on others, & visa versa.. I like to think my list is based on, if they all fought each other 3 times, where they'd end up on a points system.. Prime 4 Prime of course..

    1. Joe Louis
    2. Muhammad Ali
    3. Larry Holmes
    4. Lennox Lewis
    5. Mike Tyson
    6. Evander Holyfield
    7. George Foreman
    8. Joe Frazier
    9. Rocky Marciano
    10. Sonny Liston
    11. Jack Dempsey
    12. Riddick Bowe
    13. Jack Johnson
    14. Ken Norton
    15. Ray Mercer
    16. Jim Jeffries
    17. Gene Tunney
    18. Ezzard Charles
    19. Joe Walcott
    20. Floyd Patterson

    I have only included fighters who held a version of the world title.. I know there were guys who didn't get there shot, who could have been there, ie Langford, Jackson, Wills, McVey, etc, who can come on a later thread.. I'm also aware that Ken Norton was awarded the WBC strap when Leon Spinks was stripped, but I think it's fair to say, he's there on merit..
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2009

  2. Babe_Ruth

    Babe_Ruth Sultan of Swat Staff Member V.I.P.

    It might take me some time to reply to this thread, because I haven't really made an official top 20 list as of yet when it comes to boxing, but I'll be able to figure it out during the next days or so.

    Good thread by the way.
     
  3. Southpaw

    Southpaw Registered Member

    It's a similar idea to your own.. To compliment your threads on individual fighters, I'll eventually compile top 20's of all the weights.. This gives more scope for the novices & knowledgeable combined.. Hopefully, someone will say, "What the hell's this guy on about?" then get involved.. We can only try...
     
  4. Southpaw

    Southpaw Registered Member

    Feel a bit guilty about not including the Klitschko brothers.. Will wait a bit longer to see how their careers pan out.. They both look like potential top tenners at this stage though..
     
  5. Babe_Ruth

    Babe_Ruth Sultan of Swat Staff Member V.I.P.

    Well here's my list:

    There are Two ways to grade fighters. 1. IN THE RING. 2. Accomplishment and Historical Impact.

    I favor IN THE RING but I'll consider a combination of both.

    My Criteria: I believe that NO ONE would go Undefeated in a series of fights with Each fighter facing ALL others in the TOP 12 in a series of 3 fights.

    I'll list 13-20 as well although I don't think any of these fighters rank well with 1 thru 12.

    Here's Mine

    1. MUHAMMAD ALI: To beat him, you need FOOTWORK, STAMINA, HAND SPEED, POWER. No one has THAT combination of talent.

    The Next 3 are interest and either one could take the Number 2 spot, placing the others in a different order. Still, these Three rank well above the rest.

    2. JOE LOUIS: The Perfect Boxer. His only weakness is lack of FOOTWORK. Only One fighter would be able to exploit that weakness. See Number 1.

    3. LARRY HOLMES: He has it ALL. He can do a little of Everything. Given the styles, I've always said that Anyone ALI could beat, HOLMES could also beat.....but easier. Joe Louis is the exception. No One compares to ALI in style. HOLMES has enough speed to handle the rest.

    4. LENNOX LEWIS: Like Holmes, He has a little of Everything. P4P, he's not as tough as Holmes but he is bigger and stronger than everyone. He's the one of only two big men who can fight. The other one doesn't even make the Top 12 because he lacks discipline and was always afraid of Lewis. ........Lennox is simple TOO BIG and STRONG for any of the others to beat.

    5. GEORGE FORMAN: The Hardest PUNCHER EVER. He could score a KO over Lewis but Lennox improves in the rematch, never to lose to George again. He might Lose to Holyfield but he beats more of the fighters to whom Holyfield would lose to.

    6. EVANDER HOLYFIELD: Like Holmes, Evander has Everything. Holmes just has a little more of what it takes to win.

    7. MIKE TYSON: Like him or not, he's one of history's hardest punchers. He also has one of the best CHINS in the division. Add that with the HAND SPEED that most heavyweights lack and you will see that those BEHIND him are there because they don't make it out of the early rounds before they can exploit his weaknesses.

    His weaknesses: Poor STAMINA and BALANCE. Unsettled Mind.

    8. ROCKY MARCIANO: Has a lot over Tyson over all. What he DOESN'T have is the SIZE to stop Tyson or survive past Round 6. Styles make fights.

    9. JACK JOHNSON: People like to compare him to ALI. Look at the FILMS, RECORDS and QUALITY OF OPPOSITION. Also, look at the styles. You will see that Johnson, while great, is a bit overrated. He's the First Black Heavyweight Champion but he never had to deal with guys with styles like Tyson or Marciano. He also never had to deal with ALI, whose footwork would leave Jack in the dust.

    Johnson fought during a time when fighters simply didn't use defense. He was NO ALI. He was more like a poor man's Larry Holmes.

    10. SONNY LISTON: BIG and STRONG. He could take 2 of 3 against Marciano. But he loses to guys who Rocky would beat. He also goes 0 - 3 against some whom Rocky would score at least one of 3.

    *******Like 2 thru 4, Numbers 8 thru 10 could go in any order, meaning LISTON could rank as high as 8 or JOHNSON could also rank 8th.

    11. JOE FRAZIER: Tough pick between him and Dempsey for the Number 11 spot. I believe he takes 2 of 3 over Dempsey for one simple reason. FORMAN Destroyed Frazier because he was able to strike at a distance and Frazier fought him the only way he could. Dempsey, who doesn't hit as hard as Forman, would not be able to keep Frazier at bay. Once he gets inside, Dempsey has never had to deal with a pressure fighter like Frazier. He wouldn't survive.

    12. JACK DEMPSEY: a bit overrated but still great. He would take a few victories over those ranked above him. But he loses 2 of 3 to Frazier, who would lose to most of the rest. He also comes out with one of the worst records in a series of fights against the rest of the TOP 12.

    **************************************…
    From GREAT to Good.

    These fighters are ranked more on HISTORICAL IMPACT and ACCOMPLISHMENT than IN THE RING.
    13. Sam Langford* He should rank above Dempsey but he wasn't really a heavyweight. Dempsey, admitted that he was afraid to fight Langford.


    14. Wladimir Klitschko
    15. Ezzard Charles
    16. Gene Tunney
    17. Vitali Klitschko
    18. Riddick Bowe
    19. Jim Jeffries
    20. Ken Norton
     
  6. Thunder

    Thunder Registered Member

    To be honest I can't make a top 10 list let alone a top 20 one.I haven't seen enough tape on everybody to match resumes and H2H ability but my top 3 are clear :
    Ali
    Louis
    Johnson

    It's hard to make one.What I'd like to say about TS's one is:

    -Tyson is overrated by many people and is way to high.He is borderline top 10 probably.
    -I can't see Marciano over Liston
    -Jack Johnson is WAY underrated on that list.
    -Schmeling is a top 20 HW on any list.
     
  7. Southpaw

    Southpaw Registered Member

    I'm a sucker for Joe Louis I'm afraid.. An absolute killing machine in his prime..

    Maybe, you're right about Schmeling.. I agonized with him, Walcott, Charles & Patterson..

    I'm open to debate on Johnson.. Superb defense, but a bit of a messer who never took the game that seriously.. Think he may have taken a dive against Willard to.
    ------
    Ref: Babe Ruth.. Like the different angle, bringing the Klits into play..
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  8. Thunder

    Thunder Registered Member

    Johnson fought everybody as a contender.Everybody on the block.

    Yes he drew the color line himselkf after winning the title but he did out of money issues.

    I can't see him under Riddick Bowe for example.
     
  9. Heskey

    Heskey Registered Member

    1. Muhammad Ali
    2. Joe Louis
    3. Lennox Lewis
    4. Larry Holmes
    5. George Foreman
    6. Sonny Liston
    7. Evander Holyfield
    8. Joe Frazier
    9. Ezzard Charles
    10. Rocky Marciano
    11. Jack Johnson
    12. Mike Tyson
    13. Jack Dempsey
    14. Wladimir Klitschko
    15. Gene Tunney
    16. Vitali Klitschko
    17. Floyd Patterson
    18. Jim Jeffries
    19. Ingemar Johansson
    20. Max Shmeling
     
  10. Thunder

    Thunder Registered Member

    Generally very good list.

    But what has Vitali done to be ranked that high?
     

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