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When do you stop being an "immigrant"?

sunrise

aka ginger warlock
V.I.P.
I don't know my roots, not properly. My dad was born and raised in Liverpool, my mum was born in South Africa and both me and my sister were born in Hong Kong.

The one thing I think we can all agree on is a lot of people from other countries came to England to set up camp and a number of people went to the US and called it home. Yet despite knowing this we have a problem with others coming into a country we call home so when exactly does one stop being an immigrant and why do we have such a problem with others coming in? Surely they are doing the exact same thing just a few hundred years later? Are immigrants coming to the UK stealing jobs from British people? Do they have the right to claim off "our" benefits system?

As I say I don't entirely know my roots, for all I know I am an immigrant but because I have been in England for so long I am not even thought of as being an immigrant and honestly, I have no problem in people coming from elsewhere. When I don't get a job I don't think "oh its those f**kin immigrants again stealing my job" I think "oh well I wasn't good enough. Where do I apply next?"

Some years ago my job was outsourced and a friend said to me "you must be really mad at them taking you job", I explained I wasn't, at the end of the day the COMPANY I worked for made this decision, not the people that were ultimately hired to replace me. Maybe I am looking at this in a very simplistic way but this is how I see it.
 

PretzelCorps

Registered Member
If other people are coming in and doing a better job, why shouldn't they replace our own sad sack workers? Having a job isn't a right; you earn it. That's why I've been in school almost non-stop for the last 6 years.

There was this radio show a couple months back, where they had these college kids from BC (Western Coast, Canada) whining about the influx of Asians in BCU, upset because they were unable to compete. The radio show host's response was: "Well why not stop drinking, partying, and playing volleyball, and start working a bit harder?"

There really isn't much of a rebuttal to that.
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
Technically, you don't stop being an immigrant. Either you've immigrated or you haven't.

I agree that there's this bizarre mentality about people stealing your job. If they're better than you, then the company will go with the better employee. Would it make you feel better if the company recruited someone from overseas, rather than someone coming here hoping for a job? It has the same effect in the long run.

On the other hand, a couple years ago I spent several months just trying to find a minimum wage job. There really wasn't much I could have done to make myself better than the competition. I don't think I have any right to be upset with someone who's here legally and who's working a job they're qualified for. I DO think I have a right to be upset with a government that encourages employers to meet certain diversity in hiring requirements (which encourages employers to hire slightly inferior employees), considers making illegal immigrants legal, etc.
 

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
If other people are coming in and doing a better job, why shouldn't they replace our own sad sack workers? Having a job isn't a right; you earn it. That's why I've been in school almost non-stop for the last 6 years.

There was this radio show a couple months back, where they had these college kids from BC (Western Coast, Canada) whining about the influx of Asians in BCU, upset because they were unable to compete. The radio show host's response was: "Well why not stop drinking, partying, and playing volleyball, and start working a bit harder?"

There really isn't much of a rebuttal to that.
I could not agree with the radio host more. That's always been my mentality, having a job isn't a right, you have to earn it.

I think from my perspective here in South Texas, is we are seeing more and more influx of people from the Latin American countries coming here illegally. I don't have a problem with people coming over legally and coming here to work hard. What I do have a problem with, and a lot of people here have a problem with, is the illegal immigration and those that come to take advantage of social services.
 

Pugz

Ms. Malone
V.I.P.
Are immigrants coming to the UK stealing jobs from British people? Do they have the right to claim off "our" benefits system?
It's not just a case of them coming to 'steal' our jobs, it's employers - like Tesco for example - bringing them over, paying for them to be here and giving them less than minimum wage; while Brits, who want to work, know they can barely live on minimum wage.

Another reason for hate is because we're soft on them; they commit crimes and get a slap on the wrist, we don't deport them when our prisons are supposedly cramped and we're just handing visas out because the line is too long to care. It's also looking like we're becoming 2nd best in our own country, politicians would rather take care of them than us.

As for when you stop being an immigrant; I think it's when you integrate well into the country of choice.
 

ExpectantlyIronic

e̳̳̺͕ͬ̓̑̂ͮͦͣ͒͒h̙ͦ̔͂?̅̂ ̾͗̑
I find it impossible to get mad at immigrants qua immigrants. My grandma and grandpa on my mom's side were both immigrants to America, but it seems strange to think of my grandma as an immigrant; given she's been fully integrated in American society since she was a young kid. I know America has a reputation for the fast-assimilation of immigrants, in that second-generation immigrants all consider themselves Americans here. I mean, I suppose you're an immigrant if you've immigrated, but if you're a legal citizen of a America, in the least, you are no doubt also an American. Nobody here can really say they're a pure and native American all the way back to Plymoth Rock or whatever.

I can't really speak for England, though, because I'm not English, but it seems weird to me to consider a citizen of a country to be of another nationality.
 
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sunrise

aka ginger warlock
V.I.P.
Another reason for hate is because we're soft on them; they commit crimes and get a slap on the wrist, we don't deport them when our prisons are supposedly cramped and we're just handing visas out because the line is too long to care. It's also looking like we're becoming 2nd best in our own country, politicians would rather take care of them than us.
This is not meant as an attack towards you it really is not but this sort of argument annoys me, that we are "soft" on people from other countries. I don't have any stats to back me up, I have never spoken to any prison workers but how do we know that we are more or less soft on people from this country than people who have come to it? Papers like The Daily Mail, The Sun etc go insane over this (usually followed by the words GONE MAD) but they very rarely report on "non-imigrants" being treated softly. It seems to me that they do not exactly give the clearest reports.
 

Kibi

Babeasaurus Sex
I love how normally the people who shout hate about people stealing jobs are normally those too lazy or too proud to get one themselves.

Want a job? great there are loads of cleaners jobs...wait...oh thats not good enough for you....great, don't really want a job then do you.

Britain infuriates me.

My family came from Ireland and Canada and yet I am a british citizen. Am I proud? No.

We are a country full of has beens - We USED to own the common wealth we USED to be an empire WE USED TO ISPIRE GREATNESS. Now we are a lazy fat country that takes its orders from elsewhere and LOVE to complain but not push forward or make change.

My heart breaks everytime I hear racism or even worse "I'm not racist but..." It makes me sick to the stomach.

Immigration is and always will be one of the best things that has ever happened to this country. Think of the Jewish immigrants throughout world war 2 and the boost they gave to the economy and trade industries - or the workers we brought from india to fight on the front line so no precious middle class white boys got killed who not only began one of the biggest booms for the clothing industry but introduced us to a new and beautiful culture.

Don't get me wrong immigration laws need to be tightened and the benefits sytem in this country needs a MASSIVE overhaul but I ask you this - if you had a family and you were suffering a horrendous way of life but you COULD fix it - YOU COULD clothe your children and find a house for them, wouldn't you?

I would.
 

shelgarr

Registered Member
Never! And people should be proud of it. I don't see it as an adjective or a title or a noun. I see it as someone that went through the process of immigration. That requires courage! Not only are you changing countries, possibly languages, culture and customs, but you're also learning their infrastructure, policy, and systems. It is very difficult. I admire anyone that takes it on!
 

idisrsly

I'm serious
V.I.P.
It's not just a case of them coming to 'steal' our jobs, it's employers - like Tesco for example - bringing them over, paying for them to be here and giving them less than minimum wage; while Brits, who want to work, know they can barely live on minimum wage.
Want a job? great there are loads of cleaners jobs...wait...oh thats not good enough for you....great, don't really want a job then do you.
I couldn't agree with Kibi more on this. There are jobs out there. Enough jobs. Immigrants aren't so much "taking" your jobs as they are "doing" the jobs that are beneath you. They aren't as arrogant as to say they won't do a job because it's considered low income or whatever, yet, they have never worked a day in their life. Honestly, if you've never worked, you better take what you can get to get your foot in the door there. When I lived and worked in the UK, I got paid minimum wage. Sure, money was tight, but I lived a good enough life and partied hard with it. It meant me needing to work some overtime, but fortunately I am not too lazy to do that, if that's what I need to do.

My experience in the US is a little different than my time in the UK. I am not earning minimum wage, and have most of the necessities I need to live. Where I shared a house with anything between 3 and 7 people in the UK, I now live alone. But my job here is exactly what CO described. I am qualified to do what I do (and worked years to gain experience) and was employed before coming over to specifically do this job. I have very little tolerance for people who take offense to foreigners being here, "taking" their jobs.

Just to tie back to the OP, personally I would be proud to be called an immigrant for as long as I am in another country other than SA, but if I had children here (or another country), I would at least hope they are not considered immigrants. Someone said it already, immigrants worked hard to get where they are. I'm proud of what I've achieved so far.
 
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