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What was the real relation between Science and the Church?

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Mickiel

Registered Member
The history between science and the church is interesting, yet I think its something science wants to forget now. Science used to be a search for the divine when it began to flourish during the 1500"s to 1700's. I mean real science, not early experimentation by individuals. The science that was organized by Theist and ran by Theist; and back then most of the real founding fathers of each particular branch of science, were Theist. Just punch into your computer and ask for the list of founding fathers of science who were Theist, and see for yourself.

Well what happened back then that caused the break up between science and the church, which became known as the " Scientific Revolution?" What was it that made them literally enemies? So at odds with each other, and yet they came out of each other?
 

Mickiel

Registered Member
The real history of science was a search for the divine, and religious men were the bulk of the original scientists. They were church men; devot theologians and serious believers in God. Well what in the world happened to that? If you look at the average scientist now, they are Atheist; some serious unbelievers in God and want nothing to do with a church. What does history have to say for this strange conversion?

Why do some people act as if science has nothing to do with religion? Why is that true history being ignored? Why did the church and science go to war with each other? Why did science get tired of " Church regulated science?"
 

JesseCuster

Registered Member
Scientists don't care who does science - only that they do it honestly.

A long time ago, doing science was considered righteous because, I suppose, you were working to discover the laws that God had set in place. This worked out great for everyone involved, for a time.

The problems probably began when scientists started discovering things that contradicted established theology (geocentrism, e.g.) and that's when things got messy.

Is there a history there? Sure. Do we really care who started which college? No. Just give us good science and we're good. If you want to pay yourself on the back for what your religious organization did a few hundred years ago, have at it - just don't be too self-satisfied since there is plenty bad in the history as well.
 

Mickiel

Registered Member
Scientists don't care who does science - only that they do it honestly.

A long time ago, doing science was considered righteous because, I suppose, you were working to discover the laws that God had set in place. This worked out great for everyone involved, for a time.

The problems probably began when scientists started discovering things that contradicted established theology (geocentrism, e.g.) and that's when things got messy.

Is there a history there? Sure. Do we really care who started which college? No. Just give us good science and we're good. If you want to pay yourself on the back for what your religious organization did a few hundred years ago, have at it - just don't be too self-satisfied since there is plenty bad in the history as well.
I am not religious and hold no need to pat myself on the back; I am simply stating the facts as they were and are; and asking a few questions. I agree that science started discovering things which contradicted established theology, and I think much of that theology was wrong then and now. But I care who started the the college, and I like being aware of that history.

And Religion is a foundation of the history of science, simply no doubt about it.
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But Religion and Science got into a war, and that war has been costly, and history does not need to be forgotten or brushed to the side. Science cannot brush away its origins, neither can we humans brush aside ours; we need to know and understand where we came from; and understand where Science came from as well.
 
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JesseCuster

Registered Member
And a foundation of religion was humanity's ability to farm and have reserves of calories... Should we talk about how domesticating various grains helped science develop?

It's an interesting subject but you'll get quizzical looks if you bring it up because you can just keep going further back: opposable thumbs created science! low resources in Africa created science! the thing that killed the large dinosaurs created science!
 

Mickiel

Registered Member
And a foundation of religion was humanity's ability to farm and have reserves of calories... Should we talk about how domesticating various grains helped science develop?

It's an interesting subject but you'll get quizzical looks if you bring it up because you can just keep going further back: opposable thumbs created science! low resources in Africa created science! the thing that killed the large dinosaurs created science!

No, religion created science; its history and its a fact! The church is the mother of science, and its just another child that ran away from its mother.
 

JesseCuster

Registered Member
No, religion created science; its history and its a fact! The church is the mother of science, and its just another child that ran away from its mother.
Um, I didn't contradict you - who are you responding to? But I also constructed a similarly silly message as yours (except I correctly used "its" and "it's").

No, farming created religion; it's history and it's a fact! Farming is the mother of religion, and it's just another child that ran away from its mother.
 
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idisrsly

I'm serious
V.I.P.
This is a very interesting topic Mickiel. I am a Christian, and at the same time I love science. I find it interesting how some (the majority) scientists look at science and say "see, this proves that your God cannot exist". I look at science and see how amazing God is to have created such complex life.

I will never understand how science disproves Gods existence. If anything, God is the greatest scientist. Who ever said that God could not have created the universe through the use of science?

Religion does not disprove science. Science does not disprove God.
 

Mickiel

Registered Member
This is a very interesting topic Mickiel. I am a Christian, and at the same time I love science. I find it interesting how some (the majority) scientists look at science and say "see, this proves that your God cannot exist". I look at science and see how amazing God is to have created such complex life.

I will never understand how science disproves Gods existence. If anything, God is the greatest scientist. Who ever said that God could not have created the universe through the use of science?

Religion does not disprove science. Science does not disprove God.

Well I agree with you, in fact, I think science is one of the greatest proofs of God. Its just that everything they are discovering, they don't give that credit to God; but everything science discovers, is a work of God; already established by him through Jesus creative efforts. Science just no longer has the balls to credit God.
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Science and Religion used to be one IN the same; religion used to be a search for God, and so was science. Religion was mans effort to reach God and understand him; science began understanding that search through the stars, then it got tired of the church appointed men who explained God without using a proper understanding of HOW Gods creations worked!

This was the chasm that separated science from the church. Knowledge!

Then a war developed between spiritual knowledge and scientific knowledge. Or I should say " So called Spiritual knowledge." Scientific knowledge started out growing the church knowledge, in my view.
 
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JesseCuster

Registered Member
I'm all for it as long as people start tithing to whatever national science institute their country runs. Remember people, giving to science is like giving to the church!
 
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