What is so "unexpected"?

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by SmilinSilhouette, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. SmilinSilhouette

    SmilinSilhouette Registered Member

    U.S. Consumer Sentiment Index Unexpectedly Declines - Bloomberg

    Is it just me or are the "pundits" the ONLY ones who are "suprised" by unemployment, consumer confidence, and all the other waning economic indicators? I, for one, will be suprised if things get BETTER anytime soon, especially if things don't change drastically with the elections in November.

  2. Sim

    Sim Registered Member

    I'm not sure the elections will have much impact, unless really fresh, new, independent politicians and ideas get a foot in the door, maybe a genuine third party even. I don't see that these days' Republicans have good answers. After all, the current crisis brewed and finally exploded under their watch. And they are, just as much as the Democrats, ridden by the systemic problems that seem to infect Washington (think of that posting about "Buy a Republican" -- could as well have been a Democrat, I guess).

    Considering Obama has been a disappointment on many fields, and, although I am still willing to believe he is a good guy and had good intentions (of course I may be wrong), he did not manage to really make a difference and change the deep running flaws in the system (it seems the system has changed him much more within these almost 2 years, than he even attempted to change the system), there has to be a real paradigm shift in politics before things really get better.

    I'm not sure the Tea Party is such a movement that can make a difference. Maybe some of them, like the genuine libertarians mentioned (which I surprisingly often meet online, which makes me think there are quite a few of them), but way too many Tea Party people just seem to be disgruntled Republicans angry at Obama for the wrong reasons, and of course, like probably in any kind of movement of that scope, quite a few plain uninformed idiots. At any rate, when they idolize Sarah Palin as their icon, or hate Obama because he allegedly is a "Muslim", or blame Obama's socialism without even being aware Republicans at least since Bush jr are a big government party too, they are certainly not people that really can make a difference, IMHO.

    So I hope for a real change in American politics within the next years, together with my American friends. I like America in general very much, as much as I dislike many things that go on there, which is why I am so much interested in these developments. At any rate, I hope a real change is possible without chaos or bloodshed. We've often seen in the past in other countries, that when things were so broken people finally woke up to change it, this Pandora's Box was once opened, many horrible things came out of it, before it finally got better.
  3. SmilinSilhouette

    SmilinSilhouette Registered Member

    I disagree. Already we are seeing change in rhetoric, at least. We shall see if that translates into action and change in attitude of the "ruling class". I feel that we are in this position because republicans abandoned their small government values while still paying lip service to them. I agree that this has happened under their watch, although I feel that since the first Bush presidency republicans have moved to a position of democrat "light". You might notice that I posted a democrat "fund raising" call in the "Buy a republican" thread.

    I don't see Obama as a bad person, just his administration and policies as bad for our representative republic. Unfortunately I don't see what Obama has done as progress, nor as change in the attitude of the "ruling class."

    I believe it is difficult for many to make a good assessment of the tea party as it is demonized by most media and the anti-federalist "big tent" message that unifies the tea party is lost in that demonization as racist, bigoted, xenophobic, islamophobic, ignorant, white people who are just a bunch of haters. Many, if not most, realize that this big government slide didn't happen overnight and has been many years and administrations in the making. IMHO, this slide toward big government really gained momentum under Bush Sr. and has progressively gotten worse with big government, big spending politicians of all stripes joining together to form a "ruling class" that thinks it knows better than we the people.

    We share that hope.

    Let me further explain my assessment of why we are in such dire straits today. The anti-business, class warfare, divisive nature of washington's big government politicians in general and Obama specifically is sending a chilling message to the very sector of our population that it the driving force in our economy: entrepeneurs. I work with small business owners and, frankly, they are frightened by our government. Increased regulation, costs, and general demonization have sent a chilling message that success and profit are bad things. Many do not know what to expect in the future with requirements that they must provide ever increasing benefits, like expensive health care, to all employees or be fined by government. This combined with the overall malaise of a bad and worsening economy make them uncertain about the future. Who would want to hire new employees at this time if taxes and regulation are going up? Who can afford to give raises when the government will increase the costs associated with each employee when profits are significantly down? Who wants to be seen as successful when the successful are constantly demonized and the target of increased taxes? These are a few of the many reasons that increasing unemployment, poverty, and economic instability are no suprise to me. Furthermore, I expect the stock market to take a big dip at the end of the year as companies take profit this year to avoid higher taxes in the future. I also expect significant inflation, if not hyper-inflation, as massive government spending and fewer successful taxpayers with less income to tax will require the government to print more paper play money. If we do not change course soon it may be decades before we can dig out of the hole that we have thrown ourselves into.
  4. MenInTights

    MenInTights not a plastic bag

    I agree with this. It is the entrepreneur that will save us. My family opened a restaurant in the 80s on a shoestring budget that thrived and beat the larger ones in the area. You cannot do that today without a serious capital investment. I would estimate the price of bringing things up to code and getting equipped with everything that state says you need would be well over $250K. That doesn't include rent and the ridiculous amount of red tape just to hire and keep someone. There's just no room for the entrepreneur because big business has married politicians.
    And, as you say even if you are successful in breaking out these barriers, you have no idea what is coming in a year or five. America will survive when the entrepreneur is turned lose.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010
  5. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    I agree with this as well and think this is a good synopsis of why we are in the economic situation we are in and why things are going down instead of up. It is becoming increasingly harder and harder and more and more expensive for the entreprenuers. Until we as a society make it easier for those who wish to go into business for themselves actually do so we are going to continue in a downward slope. Oh the economy will pick up from time to time, but not for any sustained length of period.
  6. SmilinSilhouette

    SmilinSilhouette Registered Member

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