• Welcome to the PopMalt Forums! Whether you're new to forums or a veteran, welcome to our humble home on the web! We're a 20-year old forum community with thousands of discussions on entertainment, lifestyle, leisure, and more.

    Our rules are simple. Be nice and don't spam. Registration is free, so what are you waiting for? Join today!.

What does it take to make you lose your religion/become a believer?

Sim

Registered Member
The interesting debate with Hybrix in another thread in this section -- we discussed proof for and against the events described in the Bible, he from a Christian point of view, I from an atheist point of view -- made me wonder:

If you are atheist, what would it take to make you become a believer? Can you imagine one or several particular events that would make you becoming believer of a particular religion?

If you are a believer, what would it take to make you losing your religion, becoming atheist, or embracing another religion? Can you imagine one or several particular events that would cause you to turn your back on your current religion?

Personally, I don't believe in any religion, because I see no reason to believe in anything that's not proven -- but I don't think the Christian religion, for example, is disproven either. But I can imagine one event that would cause me to embrace Christian religion:
In another thread, I explained that I have recurring dreams about a particular World War scenario, which happen to be similar to many alleged "prophecies" (visions by people who claim to have seen into the future). So far, I believe they are just dreams, probably caused by reading too many books and watching too many documentaries about WW2 and the Cold War.
If this dream scenario actually became reality one day, just as I have seen it, I would most likely become a believer and embrace Christian faith.

I admit that this would not be rational: It could still be a very weird coincidence, as highly unlikely as it is. And even if that was considered proof that dreams and prophecies can foresee the future, the fact that premonition exists does not prove the existence of God yet, or the accuracy of Christian theology. At best, it would be proof that seeing into the future is possible.

So why would I embrace Christian faith, instead of any other religion that claims foreseeing the future is possible? Or believe in a rational, scientific explanation for sightings of future events?

That's because such a proof would shatter my worldview, and I would need something to find orientation again. The Christian religion is closest to me, closer than other religions, so I would look for answers here.

Today, I don't believe in the supernatural. There is no such thing as ghosts, no such thing as demons, angels, God or Satan. Because there is not the slightest evidence they exist -- never has it been possible to observe any of these phenomena in a controlled experiment, and all the rumor and hearsay about unexplainable events can easily be explained without invoking the supernatural (usually, either by misinterpretation or impaired perception of the alleged observer, or by deliberate lying). I have never experienced the slightest clue that supernatural phenomena exist myself.

But if these war dreams became reality one day, it would be proof enough for me. If there is proof premonition does exist, I could no longer be sure demons, angels, God or Satan don't exist either. So I would look for answers in Christian faith -- I couldn't be sure it's the true faith, but I would need some orientation. Christian religion is closer to me than any other religion, so I'd start there to get back some kind of orientation.
 

EllyDicious

made of AMBIGUITY
V.I.P.
If you are a believer, what would it take to make you losing your religion, becoming atheist, or embracing another religion? Can you imagine one or several particular events that would cause you to turn your back on your current religion?
Good question.

Currently, I don't support any religion but I just believe in God.
If science could disprove God... [something that it's not done yet] and show how we came into life then I could possibly erase God from my life.
 

MenInTights

not a plastic bag
The interesting debate with Hybrix in another thread in this section -- we discussed proof for and against the events described in the Bible, he from a Christian point of view, I from an atheist point of view -- made me wonder:

If you are atheist, what would it take to make you become a believer? Can you imagine one or several particular events that would make you becoming believer of a particular religion?

If you are a believer, what would it take to make you losing your religion, becoming atheist, or embracing another religion? Can you imagine one or several particular events that would cause you to turn your back on your current religion?

Personally, I don't believe in any religion, because I see no reason to believe in anything that's not proven -- but I don't think the Christian religion, for example, is disproven either. But I can imagine one event that would cause me to embrace Christian religion:
In another thread, I explained that I have recurring dreams about a particular World War scenario, which happen to be similar to many alleged "prophecies" (visions by people who claim to have seen into the future). So far, I believe they are just dreams, probably caused by reading too many books and watching too many documentaries about WW2 and the Cold War.
If this dream scenario actually became reality one day, just as I have seen it, I would most likely become a believer and embrace Christian faith.

I admit that this would not be rational: It could still be a very weird coincidence, as highly unlikely as it is. And even if that was considered proof that dreams and prophecies can foresee the future, the fact that premonition exists does not prove the existence of God yet, or the accuracy of Christian theology. At best, it would be proof that seeing into the future is possible.

So why would I embrace Christian faith, instead of any other religion that claims foreseeing the future is possible? Or believe in a rational, scientific explanation for sightings of future events?

That's because such a proof would shatter my worldview, and I would need something to find orientation again. The Christian religion is closest to me, closer than other religions, so I would look for answers here.

Today, I don't believe in the supernatural. There is no such thing as ghosts, no such thing as demons, angels, God or Satan. Because there is not the slightest evidence they exist -- never has it been possible to observe any of these phenomena in a controlled experiment, and all the rumor and hearsay about unexplainable events can easily be explained without invoking the supernatural (usually, either by misinterpretation or impaired perception of the alleged observer, or by deliberate lying). I have never experienced the slightest clue that supernatural phenomena exist myself.

But if these war dreams became reality one day, it would be proof enough for me. If there is proof premonition does exist, I could no longer be sure demons, angels, God or Satan don't exist either. So I would look for answers in Christian faith -- I couldn't be sure it's the true faith, but I would need some orientation. Christian religion is closer to me than any other religion, so I'd start there to get back some kind of orientation.
First to answer the question. There is nothing really that I can think of that can turn me away from Christ. I guess we're fortunate to have Job set as an example of a man that literally lost everything, suffered horribly and generally remained faithful.
My second point is just a word of caution and this is really friend-to-friend and I hope it comes across as such. If you ever find your self in a situation where a vision you have comes true, be very careful about what you believe after witnessing that vision. To be specific, if a vision comes true and someone is also saying "Hey Sim, I'm the saviour." He may not be.
-Well, actually he won't be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sim

Sim

Registered Member
First to answer the question. There is nothing really that I can think of that can turn me away from Christ. I guess we're fortunate to have Job set as an example of a man that literally lost everything, suffered horribly and generally remained faithful.
If I remember correctly, you have made rather bad experiences as well (I think you wrote that here a while ago, if I don't confuse you with someone else). So when your faith has given you strength, helped you to go through hard times, and to make it again, saving you from resignation or even a bad fate -- then this would be a good example for the value of faith.

At least from my atheist perspective, this is a good argument for faith: If for nothing else, it has its use for keeping people from giving up hope in bad times. Probably it has kept many from, and helped many to overcome alcoholism or drug abuse, or from going insane. Even when I don't believe in its teachings myself, I see this belief can achieve good on this planet, at least sometimes.

My second point is just a word of caution and this is really friend-to-friend and I hope it comes across as such. If you ever find your self in a situation where a vision you have comes true, be very careful about what you believe after witnessing that vision. To be specific, if a vision comes true and someone is also saying "Hey Sim, I'm the saviour." He may not be.
-Well, actually he won't be.
Thank you very much for your advice. I assume you are warning of the Anti-Christ, as described in Revelation (correct me if I'm wrong). I'll try to keep this in mind, and *if* (very big if) any of it ever becomes reality and I make it through these hard times, then sure I will read Revelation again very carefully. *If* it indeed comes true one day and I survive, I'd probably tend to believe that God has a reason for having revealed it (to either help me to make it through the war and disaster, or to tell a crucial other person about it and influence the fate of others, or anything else I cannot fathom), and that a certain responsibility comes with it.

EDIT: For the sake of accuracy, I should mention another possible explanation for my dreams. A while ago, after I had described the dream scenario, a strong Christian believer showed me a link to a German alleged prophet who apparently was very popular in the 1950s. The future events he described were very similar to the dream scenario. The more I read about his alleged prophecies, the creepier seemed the similarities to me.

So I cannot deny the possibility that I had read about his visions, before I had the first dream of that kind. But I cannot remember it -- which doesn't mean much, because they started in 1995. I sure don't remember everything I read or watched on tv more than 15 years ago. But still it's possible that the things I had read somehow remained stuck in my subconsciousness and came up again in dreams.
 
Last edited:

ExpectantlyIronic

e̳̳̺͕ͬ̓̑̂ͮͦͣ͒͒h̙ͦ̔͂?̅̂ ̾͗̑
A far better question is: how can you know there is a God? Since the proposal involves the existence of new fundamental principles of the universe, they would have to be shown to exist. We know of gravity, because when we drop things, they fall to the ground. That is gravity. We know of trees and grass, because we interact with them all the time. People like to imply you can't hold theism to the same epistemic standards as you would hold any other claim. They like to say, "well, there's no way to tell either way." Bullshit. I know there aren't invisible gnomes running about my room. The only reason people are so hesitant to say they know God doesn't exist, is because there's an expectation of theistic epistemic-exceptionalism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sim

Sim

Registered Member
A far better question is: how can you know there is a God? Since the proposal involves the existence of new fundamental principles of the universe, they would have to be shown to exist. We know of gravity, because when we drop things, they fall to the ground. That is gravity. We know of trees and grass, because we interact with them all the time. People like to imply you can't hold theism to the same epistemic standards as you would hold any other claim. They like to say, "well, there's no way to tell either way." Bullshit. I know there aren't invisible gnomes running about my room. The only reason people are so hesitant to say they know God doesn't exist, is because there's an expectation of theistic epistemic-exceptionalism.
Agreed, that's why I don't believe in God. There is no indication to believe in something that cannot be proven -- neither in God, nor in invisible gnomes, nor in the flying spaghetti monster.

So maybe my question for you should me more precise: Can you imagine an event that would cause you to believe in something that can't be proven? An event that would cause you to be irrational?
 

EllyDicious

made of AMBIGUITY
V.I.P.
: Can you imagine an event that would cause you to believe in something that can't be proven? An event that would cause you to be irrational?
I was thinking yesterday that God seems to be an irrational creature who created a rational world.
I was wondering why He did this.
He's invisible, He's divine, he's supernatural while NOTHING in this world has these attributes. Everything seems real and likely to happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sim

ExpectantlyIronic

e̳̳̺͕ͬ̓̑̂ͮͦͣ͒͒h̙ͦ̔͂?̅̂ ̾͗̑
Sim said:
So maybe my question for you should me more precise: Can you imagine an event that would cause you to believe in something that can't be proven? An event that would cause you to be irrational?
I've given the example before that if angels emerged from the sky and started publicly doing magical stuff on a regular basis while talking about God, then I would believe. I don't think it would be irrational then, though.
 

JessEpiphany

Registered Member
It's hard to say.

If god appeared out of the clouds and started speaking to me would I then believe?
If I'm the only person seeing him, I would believe I've finally gone crazy.
If others see him, I would be inclined to think it's real and then I would believe that he is probably a god. But would I adhere to a certain set of beliefs? No, not until the man/woman from the clouds tells me what's true and what's not. (I would look like an absolute fool -infidel?- if a man popped out of the clouds and I suddenly accept Jesus as my saviour only to find out that the man from the clouds is Allah.)

Also, just a really logical explanation of a religion... one without really bizarre happenings, without what I feel are contradictions, etc... might be enough to make me a believer.
 
Last edited:
Top