What are your views on welfare?

Discussion in 'Politics & Law' started by Babe_Ruth, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. Babe_Ruth

    Babe_Ruth Sultan of Swat Staff Member V.I.P.

    I was reading a reply from Anita in the selfish people thread, so I decided to start a new thread.

    What are your views on welfare? Are you against it or for it?

  2. Chaos

    Chaos Epic Gamer V.I.P. Lifetime

    I honestly think that Wales has a great system. It's not perfect by any means, but free healthcare and welfare for all is pretty freaking good. Granted, our smaller population allows that system to run, but even somewhere vastly more populated like the USA could put it into play if they wanted. They certainly have the money.
  3. Jeanie

    Jeanie still nobody's bitch V.I.P. Lifetime

    I think that if you haven't had the need for some type of social safety net, you shouldn't knock it.

    Yes there are some people who abuse it, but those types people are going to abuse any system.

    I think that any civilized society should have some type of safety net in place for people who fall on hard times, and for children born to parents who for whatever reason could not otherwise feed them. Hell I'd have gone hungry as a child if not for food stamps. My mother couldn't work due to debilitating joint pain.
  4. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    I'm all for safety nets such as welfare, I think Jeanie pointed out several examples of why we need such systems. I do think however there needs to be more fraud investigations to ensure the people that really need it are getting it. Those that are defrauding the system are taking from everyone, including those who legitimately need it.
  5. icegoat63

    icegoat63 Son of Liberty V.I.P. Lifetime

    I like the way this thread is lined out. Feels like I have enough room to actually give my honest opinion rather than fight for or against one. Good job babe.

    I'm for the concept but against the way its used.

    I truly love the idea of being able to help people when they are down and out. Thats human nature, I mean we're supposed to be as helpful as we can to eachother otherwise our consciences would eat us up.

    The Welfare that I know is there to help those who have lost their job, on the brink of losing everything, and just cant get another job. Its there to help you through a period of time until you can get back on your feet.

    Now I italicize the "Through a period of time" because in my opinion thats where Welfare fails. Although it may be human nature to help... its also human nature to be Greedy and Selfish. I personally know at least 3-4 families that survive on Welfare alone and literally have it better off than I do. So why should they try in the workplace when the Taxes from Uncle Sam's Nieces and Nephews are paying the way for them and will continue to do so without a choice?

    I am 100% against the abuse of Welfare. I think the system is tainted and to my knowledge there is a significantly unbalanced percentage of people who are on welfare that have no intention of "getting back on their feet" when they can get free money with practically no effort. I've never known a single person in my whole life to have used Welfare the way it was meant to be used.

    Why? Because those people that actually have that intent to get back on their feet use "Unemployment". This is why I feel Unemployment works much better, its your own taxed money put into your own unemployment pool. You lose your job you have a fallback for a couple months, or if you worked long enough maybe even a year. Hell I have an uncle that worked 15 years, he lost his job when the Sugar Plant shut down and he stayed on his unemployment for right around 2 years before it dried up, then he went out and got another job.

    Thats what I believe should happen to Welfare. You should only be given what you've put in. If you havent put in anything... then you're given minimal. Welfare should dry up... and it should dry up sooner than it has for practically everyone on it.

    I know more success stories from people on the "unemployment" than I do welfare. Because they know Unemployment only lasts so long so they don't have a choice but to get back to work or go on Welfare. And I dunno bought you, but I wouldn't be caught dead on Welfare if I had the choice. There is ALWAYS work around here. Always Always Always, I mean for fucks sake.... we bitch about the Farmers using illegal immigrants for farm labor.... but we do so from our couches on our asses while in the next breath we complain about how there's no work out there.... Problem Much?
    CaptainObvious likes this.
  6. Jeanie

    Jeanie still nobody's bitch V.I.P. Lifetime

    There's not always work in Michigan, ice. and also, in order to qualify for unemployment, you have to have worked in the first place.
  7. icegoat63

    icegoat63 Son of Liberty V.I.P. Lifetime

    hehehehe I'm getting smarter ;), we've had this convo before. I'm like an elephant I never forget.

    I cant argue for Michigan... But I can for California. People hate working in the Fields, so they dont. Then Farmers fill those worker-less positions with cheap immigrants. Now the Farm-Labor is dirt cheap, you wont make much but you'll still make an honest dollar. Hell I'd probably make more on Welfare than I would Piloting a Shovel in an Almond Orchard. But for someone like me, at least I can say I earned it through my own blood sweat and tears.
    I understand that.... What I dont understand is how someone can have never worked. Maybe its just my region, but I come from a place where even before we've graduated high school we're putting in 20-30 hours in the Grape Fields on the weekends and another 15 hours working after school wherever else. Usually Pushing Brooms in Dusty asbestos filled concrete warehouses :hah:.

    different world I guess.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
    Jeanie likes this.
  8. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    But then what happens is the cost for the farmer goes up for having to pay more for farm labor and provide every conceivable benefit. Soon we're paying $20 for a bag of apples so eventually apple buying will cease and everyone is laid off and we'll be blaming the greedy farmer and seek more government help. It's a vicious cycle.
    Same here. I was pushing a broom in my dad's shop by the time I was 10 then started bussing tables in my uncle's restaurant when I was 15.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  9. Jeanie

    Jeanie still nobody's bitch V.I.P. Lifetime

    Well it's not even a matter of whether you've worked or not. I realize I'm going slightly off-topic, but to qualify for unemployment benefits in Michigan, you have to have high-quarter earnings of the last 5 quarters of around $2500, and your earnings for the previous year have to have been at least 1.5 times that. Suppose a kid fresh out of high school works at the only job s/he can get making minimum wage and doesn't earn the minimum requirements to qualify for unemployment, then what options are there?

    I guess it's just far more bleak in Michigan. The only jobs available right now are in the Health Care field, seriously. There is nothing available, believe me I've been looking.
    icegoat63 likes this.
  10. Smelnick

    Smelnick Creeping On You V.I.P.

    I think welfare is a good thing. Having grown up in a low income family, welfare was a means to have food on the table. For the few years we actually qualified for it, our quality of life got better. We had full balanced meals and such. And with my mom's budgeting skills, what little we got, was sufficient to get by decently.

    What I don't like is the amount of people that abuse welfare here in Winnipeg. You can qualify for welfare if your income is less than a certain amount per year. It's al ow number too. So theres tons of people out there who'll have lots of kids and not bother working so they can collect the child family allowance and welfare. Then spend very little on the kids, and buy themselves booze, drugs and vehicles. I've seen it so much. The entire north end of Winnipeg is filled with kids running wild getting into trouble vandalizing and stealing because the parents couldn't care less. They only had the kids to get free money.

    The sadder thing is that most of the people doing this are of native american descent. And so anytime the goverment tries to crack down, they pull that card, and call racism or something to that effect, and so the government just backs off. It's really annoying to see

    So I have no problem with welfare, but I would love to see a lot more fraud detection, and enforcement. The less people abusing it, the more money there is for those who actually need it.

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