Waving the Mexican flag

Discussion in 'Politics & Law' started by CaptainObvious, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    During some protests a couple of years ago regarding changes in immigration laws, many people showed up waving the Mexican flag. It drew lots of criticism from some people in the media because to them, it showed loyalty to another country besides the one they're living in now, the US. I bring this up because I was watching the Jets game last night and I'm a big fan of Mark Sanchez. When he was at USC, Reggie Bush would put 619 on the black tape underneath his eyes. Sanchez put the Mexican flag on his and he was criticized for it.

    My question is this, do you agree that it shows loyalty to a country other than the US? Are you offended by it or not?

    While I have displayed the Mexican flag myself, I wouldn't do it at a protest or rally. I display it not as an insult to the US, I have a US flag that I display outside my house most days, but as a sign of respect to my ancestors, where I come from.

    I promise I won't take any posts personally, I'm just looking for feedback.
     

  2. icegoat63

    icegoat63 Son of Liberty V.I.P. Lifetime

    I have no problem really as far as what Mark Sanchez did with the Flag on his eye tape or whatever.

    But as far as the whole Ancestors thing goes, ya know waving the flag or displaying the flag to represent your ancestors.... I dont agree that that is a solid enough excuse or reason for it. Mostly because my family hails from Germany and I've never in my life waved a Deutschland Flag or felt the need to. However! I will say that in sporting events when my USA is not in the game and Germany is.... I'll root for them as my Second team, but in the case of USA v Germany I'd be Red, White, & Blue without a doubt.

    Then the next part of that is, "Well you're white, its different, your ancestors didnt have to fight their way here"..... wait what? And yes I've gotten that one from an old friend of mine back in high school 5+ years ago. Thats an ignorant observation to think that just because I'm white that my family had it easy, I guess we can just never mind the fact that my Great Grandparents and Grandparents had to stow away on cargo ships in order to emigrate and escape the Wiemar and Nazi Germany during their respectable times. Easy, meh I dont think so.

    However in the end, my question comes simply to this.... Would this even be an issue if it were involving Pollocks rather than Mexicans? The Polish in my community are a very proud group, and they will openly display the Polish flag at their homes underneath the American Flag. Is that alright? I mean nobody is really making to much of a stink about them right? American policy and mentality has always been laced with so much bigotry directed at Mexico, I mean hell a prime example of our odd resentment for them would be Polk's Mexican / American war. After shelling and bombarding the Crap out of Mexico's Capital city and occupying just about every major city the US could... the USA essentially Conquered all of Mexico, but we only wanted California and the rest of our Mexican Cession. Pardon me for not having the exact quote, but I can vividly recall a line from James K. Polk where he said "We only wanted the Mexican land, not the Mexican people".

    oh and as far as the Mexican Flag or any other Nations flag for that matter... In my opinion they have absolutely no grounds to be represented or presented at an American Protest, Demonstration, or any other act of Political Movement. This is the United States of America, if you're protesting Abortion rights.... why in the hell do you need to carry a Mexican Flag? :hah: and yeah I've seen that here in Fresno.
     
  3. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    But that is pretty much what he was doing, only showing respect to where he came from. Which I can identify with, I've only displayed it for the same reasons. I'm the exact same way, when the US is out or not in the game anymore, Mexico is my team, ie soccer world cup. I'll root for Mexico against everyone else and when the US is out of the running. US v. Mexico I have to go US.
    ------
    I couldn't agree with you more, that's an idiotic observation and it's sad that it's been made.
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    To me it would not. I couldn't care less if people wave the Polish flag, the German flag, etc..in New Braunsfels Texas there is a very large German population and there are Oktoberfest festivals every year. The German flag is displayed, German beer is served, and German food is served. I've been to it a few times when I was in college and it was awesome. I had no problem with the music, the flag and everything else displayed.

    As far as the protests, I agree. The incidents I'm speaking about were actually about changes in immigration laws that some considered racists. I disagree with that opinion and I disagree with waving the Mexican flag for that purpose. Even if you disagree with the potential changes, your loyalty should still be with your country.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  4. icegoat63

    icegoat63 Son of Liberty V.I.P. Lifetime

    Yeah I agree, after rereading my post I kinda think I came off to neutral or not clear enough. Basically, I like the fact that the USA is such a huge smelting pot of culture. Like the Oktoberfest in Texas (I wish we had that here!) or all the Cinco De Mayo festivities we have in my area or even Hmong New Year (which has some amazing food) but its those things that I feel make the USA so kick ass.

    In a nutshell I believe that if we start stomping out cultural lineage and pride of our ancestors that we eventually lose touch with those kinds of perks of our heritage. Already as it is, every generation loses something valuable that can never be retrieved in its respectable tradition.

    Basically I feel that if we make those types of things illegal or wrong, that its not long before we are so strict there simply wont be any culture allowed. I realize its an extreme, but anymore thats what you've got to worry about. Eventually that Grey area turns to Black.

    What I was trying to point out about the Pollocks and their flag waving is as an observation from me, if its a Mexican flag its more likely to become a problem where as if its a different flag of maybe European descent its usually not. Or Even better 'cause this one resonates a little clearer, Canadian Flags. The 23 years I've been alive, I've never once in my life heard a problem about Canadian-Americans displaying the Canadian flag and I know they do. Hell my old ice Hockey coach used to have a giant Canadian Flag Sticker on his Jeep and our Pro-Shop had only a Canadian Flag tacked up. Never once did anyone complain that the Stars and Stripes should be up there to or that the Jeep needed some Blue to balance all that Red and White out.

    And that kinda frustrates me 'cause I like to be absolutely One line for All. I don't like giving special priorities or opportunities to any one group. So I see that and I do feel its kind of BS that the Mexican Flag has so much oppression here in the states. However, and I'm sort of embarrassed to say it, but I'll admit when I see a Picker's Van with Mexican Flags draped all over it, it frustrates me.... just one of those things thats so deeply engrained in my psyche that I can go about saying what I did in this whole post and pretty much contradict myself when the rubber hits the pavement ya know.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  5. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    I know what you mean, a fraternity brother of mine used to have a Canadian flag sticker on his car and I never gave it a second thought. I thought it was kinda cool actually.

    I do see a problem however with the Mexican flag displayed at the immigration protest however. I can see how that's a problem because in some respects, it does seem to show loyalty to another country. That may not be how they mean it, but I can certainly understand that sentiment.
     
  6. Iris

    Iris rainbow 11!

    That doesn't offend me. I really couldn't care less.

    My mom is from Scotland. she was born and raised there. she loves america, she really does. But she loves Scotland more. Her family is there. I think she would like to move there, but we are too settled here. And her grandkids are here. I don't care if you love another country more or want to show respect to where you came from. As long as no laws are broken, have fun.

    Edit: sure people can say, "don't like it here? Leave" but you can't just pick up and leave. and what if your husband is in the military and was stationed in Japan and then had to go to America? Well. Looks like you are moving if you love your husband. There are other reasons, too. Family being here or being too settled. (as in your daughter started her own family that you don't want to leave behind) I know my mom would never leave America because my sister is pregnant with her second child in Cinci.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
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  7. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    See, that's pretty much how I feel as well. If I passed your mom on the highway for example and she had a Scottish flag sticker on her back window, why would I get offended? I think that's pretty cool, actually. Which is why I was so surprised and thought about it last night when I was watching the game and remembered all the crap Sanchez got for the flag on his black tape.
     
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  8. Iris

    Iris rainbow 11!

    I think it is idiotic that he was criticized for it. Just because you live in America doesn't mean you have to love it. is that going to become a law, now? lol Sure, respect it. But we don't know your life and past. We don't know if you are stuck here. Or if you came because you like America more or had to to be able to raise your family.

    I think it is great to have pride in what ever you love and where ever you have been to that has touched you in some way.
     
  9. icegoat63

    icegoat63 Son of Liberty V.I.P. Lifetime


    Yeah definitely agree. Basically... Keep the Mexican Flag out of American Politics. I definitely see that line without a doubt in my mind, it doesnt belong and does send a very odd message that can be construed in many ways (most negative) in those types of situations.

    I also got to thinking about that guy in Arizona (I think it was Arizona) it was in a spam email that was circulating for a while but I'm sure you could find it if you dug. Basically the Mexican Flag on top / above the US Flag on a flag pole in front of a laundry mat in this rinky dink dustbowl of a town and this Vietnam Vet walked up to the pole; Cut the rope and removed the US Flag and just left the Mexican one hanging. So that whole US Flag over / above all the other flags is something I hold important. And I dont feel the Vet did anything wrong there as the flag he had fought for was being disrespected by having the Mexican Flag set above it. I do agree that the little messages like that are a no-no. But that creates a really tough line between whats ok and whats not.
     
  10. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    I agree, I remeber seeing something like that and I don't see anything wrong either. The Mexican flag should not be set above the US flag and especially this being a guy who fought for this country, I agree with what he did. If done it should be done respectfully.
     

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