UK Gun Crime DOUBLED Since Handgun Ban

Mirage

Administrator
Staff member
V.I.P.
#1
Here's an interesting article and stats page on the results of the UK handgun ban. Basically, handguns were banned in the UK in 1997. In 2007, 10 years later, gun related crime in the UK has doubled. Here is an article on this that includes statistics.

SSAA - Evaluating Britain’s handgun ban

Ten years has passed and it is right to ask if Britain really is now a safer place and whether the ban has prevented criminals from obtaining and using pistols. Using the data in Table 1, were I a politician, I would simply say that in 1997, pistols were used in 2648 crimes and in 2006/07 (the Home Office has changed the statistical recording figure from calendar to financial year), they were involved in 4175 crimes. Thus, the ban on pistols in the hands of law-abiding citizens has resulted in a doubling of their use by criminals.
Thoughts on why/how this happened? I'm seriously asking this. I already have my theory but I'd like to hear what some people have to say who support gun bans.

Criminals are, by definition, those who do not obey the law. The absence of legally-held pistols has not stopped them from having whatever class of gun they prefer, including significant numbers of sub-machine-guns. The Dunblane shootings, which prompted the handgun ban, occurred in the run-up to a general election and that was the single most important factor. The politicians concerned did not care then and do not care now that the whole thing was a pathetic farce.
My theory is that criminals did not turn in their guns. Criminals also didn't feel guilty buying guns on the black market. Thirdly, criminals felt safe, especially since they had guns and their victims most likely would not. Firearm related crime in the UK has now doubled since the handgun ban. Thoughts?
 
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dDave

Guardian of the Light
V.I.P.
#2
I think that banning handguns is ridiculous.

If you ban handguns for the law abiding citizens all it does is shift the power over to the criminals who use them, they're not law abiding thus they don't turn in their guns. Criminals don't follow the law so how could banning guns help anything but the criminals who use them?

It's no surprise that the crime has gone up significantly in the UK with a ban.
 

Bananas

Endangered Species
#3
Lets not forget Gun crime is still considerably lower in the UK than in most other countries (I think only Japan and Singapore are lower!). There are something like only 20,000 reported crimes with about 60 deaths. By US standards the UK would sit fractionaly worse than North Dakota in gun crime statistics. Remember more people die in 1 day by firearms in the USA than die in the UK in an entire year, last time I checked the popualtion was not 365 times bigger.

Lets give a quick overview; There are in principle three types of gun crime within the UK.

The first is that of the organised criminals. For this type of crime the favoured weapon is the sawn-off shotgun. Its easy to obtain and modify to your needs. This type of crime genaraly goes hand in hand with armed robbery most likely targets jewellers, post offices, security vans etc.. These criminals have and most probably always be with us, if you have ever seen a British movie (Snatch, Lock'stock & 2 smoking barrels, Gangster#1 etc) these are the people Im reffering to.

The second type of gun crime are the domestic gun crime, this is the area which is extremely small(im talking just 2 or 3 cases a year). These are crimes which usually involve the mental break down of a gun owner(farmer, hunter, gentry etc) who basically goes nuts and kills their own family or similar(I think you call it going Postal in the US). Weapon of your choice? shotgun or rifle.

The third level of gun crime and the one that is activly increasing is that of gang culture. Largley contributed to inner city (mainly Manchester, Birmingham & South London) in predominantly black districts and mostly involving teenage boys aged 13-19. They generaly use handguns and smg's imported from China, the Carribean, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. Remember we are an island nation so smuggling is not an easy business.

Firearm related crime in the UK has now doubled since the handgun ban. Thoughts?
WEll my thoughts are that had firearms not been banned we would be looking at statistics going ten fold. The fact of the matter is we have nothing to compare them with, we chose this path. If we look at the above three areas of gun crime that I have highlighted it is only the third gang related crime that has increased dramaticaly and this is not realy an issue of guns but of sociological breakdown of the community influenced by distrust of the state due to economic deprivation and a general anti-intellictual, disestablishmented culture where a gang member has more influence than any other of societies hierarchs. the answer to this is nnot to decriminalise handguns but to reintroduce and implent into these areas of society a sence of civil community, we can do this a number of ways, the first be tackle the poverty issue, the second is to build youth sport centres and other activity based centres, finaly we have to give them role models and goals, preferably not gangster rappers who have been shot 10 times.


Criminals don't follow the law so how could banning guns help anything but the criminals who use them?
Simple it makes it a lot more difficult to obtain a weapon. The people of the UK are not as paranoid as in other countries, we accept the fact we do not need to possess a weapon to protect ourselves but a universal acceptance of this is what keeps us secure, at the end of the day what is the point of having a weapon other than for harm? nobody needs a weapon unless they plan harm, so therefore if anyone has one something is drasticaly wrong and that issue should be addressed.

Well you might say criminals dont obey the law, that is very true but then have you tried driving 100mph down the freeway when everyone else is only doing 50, it aint easy, you have to dodge other cars who all frown at you and you stick out like a sore thumb making it easy for the poilce car to spot you. Its the same principal with a gun, if I wanted to get a handgun I would have to go to great lengths, junp through hoops and most probably set off a lot of alarm bells and be closed in on(either by the police, other crims or society in general) before I even got close to attaining a weapon.

Here is a news article describing the lengths people go to get a weapon here. You can also see how easy it is that this one person can be linked to so many other crimes, we dont have a massive pool of weapons like in other countries, the same weapons are used over and over.

Link
 
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R1pperZ

Registered Member
#4
This goes to show that not being able to buy a gun from your local shop will not keep you from obtaining one if you want it.

The English cops might need to start carrying handguns again if these statistics keep going up.
 

Swiftstrike

Registered Member
#5
Just for mathematical clarification...

Going from 2648 gun crimes to 4175 is not doubling the gun committed crimes.

Doubled would be 5296... This is only a 1/3rd increase of a relatively small figure.

As Bananas said it is not even comparative to U.S. gun crime and the increase in neglible.

What would be interesting is if overall crime in the U.K. had increased in the past decade. Then the increase in gun crime could correlated to the increase in overall crime.

Is the gun ban the cause? Could be other infrastructure issues but that could be a variable to consider.
 
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#6
When people have no means to defend themselves they are nothing but wide open targets for criminals who do have defensive means. But when people can defend themselves, the playing field is level.

Hence there's no such thing as a gun-free society. The only gun-free society was when guns were not invented.
 

Mirage

Administrator
Staff member
V.I.P.
#8
Correct swift but still that is a lot of gun crime for a country that doesn't sell or permit ownership of guns...
Pretty much.

And think of this situation. You are a criminal. You plan to rob somebody's house. You know for a fact that there are no guns in that house. You have a gun. Are you as worried as you would be if you knew they owned guns? Do you end up having second thoughts about going through with the crime?

You'd be much more likely to rob a house if you knew the people were unarmed than if you knew they were packing heat.
 

Bananas

Endangered Species
#9
What would be interesting is if overall crime in the U.K. had increased in the past decade. Then the increase in gun crime could correlated to the increase in overall crime

Is the gun ban the cause? Could be other infrastructure issues but that could be a variable to consider.
Other crime has risen slightly. I believe what is to blame comes in three major influences.

1.) Removal of the police from the beat. You just dont see your everyday bobby around anymore, many local police stations closed and the police were taken off the beat from patrolling the street corners and put in cars and told to catch speeding motorists instead. Plus you also have increased police resources in things like counter terrorism.

2.)Material values. People walk around asking for trouble, they will have a £200 phone, a £150 ipod, a £200 watch, £100 trainers and flash it all about with out considering the fact that their could be a mugger about. Street and domestic crime has become more profitable.

3.) Population boom. The population of the UK has grown by about 10% since the gun ban. This would not be direct 10% rise in crime but slightly higher due to popualtion disparities and also due to over crowding as this island gets more and more overcrowded. The UK is the same size as Michigan yet has 6 times the population.

When people have no means to defend themselves they are nothing but wide open targets for criminals who do have defensive means. But when people can defend themselves, the playing field is level.
When the people have the means(firearms) to defend themselves then they are nothing more than criminals themselves.

The playing field in the UK is level, it just on a different level, our players on both teams do not use guns to play with (....... its considered cheating:rolleyes: The Last Boy Scout anyone!).
 

Mirage

Administrator
Staff member
V.I.P.
#10
When the people have the means(firearms) to defend themselves then they are nothing more than criminals themselves.
Only if guns are illegal, in which case criminals will still have them.

Guns aren't inheritently bad. They can be used for both good and bad as I stated in another thread.

Somebody breaks into your house and begins shooting members of your family. Bad.

You pull out a gun and put a stop to their shooting spree. Good.

Unless I'm missing something.