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Top 10 baseball players

Tyrus4189Cobb

New Member
Who are your top ten players of all time? Not your favorites, the best! Please exclude pitchers.

Mine:

1) Babe Ruth
2) Willie Mays
3) Ty Cobb
4) Honus Wagner
5) Ted Williams
6) Hank Aaron
7) Lou Gehrig
8) Tris Speaker
9) Mickey Mantle
10) Stan Musial
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Babe Ruth
Ty Cobb
Willie Mays
Ted Williams
Honus Wagner
Hank Aaron
Lou Gehrig
Mickey Mantle
Rogers Hornsby
Stan Musial
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
Hey Tyrus, welcome to GF!

My list is constantly changing, and it probably wouldn't be too hard to convince me to change my mind on some of them. I'll list 11, since Bonds is on there twice


1. Babe Ruth
2. Barry Bonds *
3. Honus Wagner
4. Rogers Hornsby
5. Ty Cobb
6. Willie Mays
7. Mickey Mantle
8. Barry Bonds
9. Ted Williams
10. Tris Speaker
11. Lou Gehrig
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Wow wade, first off I'm surprise that you didn't put Hank Aaron on your list, care to explain why?

I'm also surprise that you listed Rogers Hornsby above Ted Williams, I don't see a lot of people doing that. Just curious why you have Teddy Ballgame so low, and why you believe Hornsby was better.
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
Hank is right behind Gehrig at the moment, but like I said, it changes all the time.

Ted played a less important position than most of the people above him, his fielding was pretty bad, and his baserunning wasn't anything to talk about. I could easily see him higher though.

As far as Hornsby goes, he played a key position, he was one of the best hitters all time, and I think a lot of people underestimate his fielding.

I'm surprised that neither of you have Bonds mentioned anywhere on your list.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
The reason why I don't have Bonds on my list is because of the steroids allegations. I know he was a good player before he supposely started taking the steroids, but I don't think he was good enough to merit a spot in my top ten list of best baseball players.
 

Tyrus4189Cobb

New Member
Why is Cobb so low? I don't see it.

Cobb played in an era without any training and poor nutrition. Yet he was still able to win 12 batting titles, hit over .400 three times, and end a career that included 11434 at-bats. Some players can't hit that in one season. He hit well his entire career, even when the live-ball was introduced, which stumped some players badly.

Cobb hit 117 homers in his career. This is very good considering that he played about 20 years in the dead-ball. He hit 1937 RBIs and is second all-time in runs. He was a marvelous base-stealer and no slouch when it came to fielding. Cobb alos held a great .433 OBP and .512 SLG despite having few homers.

Cobb had to face tough pitchers in his era. Pitchers that copuld use spit-balls, etc. He is the king of the contact. I don't see how he is lesser than Bonds, Hornsby, and Wagner.

If you need me to go on, just give a shout.
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
Why is Cobb so low? I don't see it.
5th is not low. Just saying... :)
Cobb played in an era without any training and poor nutrition. Yet he was still able to win 12 batting titles, hit over .400 three times, and end a career that included 11434 at-bats. Some players can't hit that in one season. He hit well his entire career, even when the live-ball was introduced, which stumped some players badly.
Everyone in his era had poor training and poor nutrition.

Also, I didn't know that the introduction of the live ball stumped some players. Do you have any examples?

Cobb hit 117 homers in his career. This is very good considering that he played about 20 years in the dead-ball. He hit 1937 RBIs and is second all-time in runs. He was a marvelous base-stealer and no slouch when it came to fielding. Cobb alos held a great .433 OBP and .512 SLG despite having few homers.
I find it almost impossible to convert power numbers from the deadball era with any sort of accuracy. Because almost everyone I've looked at during the deadball era tended to hit between 2 and 12 HR in a year. And everyone's numbers fluctuated. You didn't have one person always hitting about 10-12 HR a year. Everyone's numbers were as low as 2-3, and many people's were as high as 10-12. I see no good way to adjust everyone's numbers fairly. Is it possible he would have been able to hit 30 HR today? Sure. But it's also possible he wouldn't have hit more than 20 in his highest HR season.

RBI and runs don't mean anything to me, since they're a factor of his teammates.
Cobb had to face tough pitchers in his era. Pitchers that copuld use spit-balls, etc. He is the king of the contact. I don't see how he is lesser than Bonds, Hornsby, and Wagner.
If you need me to go on, just give a shout.[/quote] He's lower than Bonds*, but more than Bonds. Bonds was a monster before steroids - in 1992, he hit .311, with .456 OB, .624 SLG, 205 OPS+, and almost 40 SB. And he was a great fielder too. But while on steroids, he put up arguably the best hitting seasons ever. That's why Bonds* is ahead of Cobb.

Wagner played under the same conditions Cobb did, so that makes things easier. He was the ultimate in versatility, playing almost every position. He was a phenomenal fielder at every position, but most importantly, at his primary position, SS, the most important position on the field (other than maybe Catcher, but they're almost a separate category).

Hornsby was a better hitter than Cobb IMO, and played a position that's just as important.

Part of the reason I rank people as I do is because I do a lot of All-Time drafts. And while CFers are somewhat scarce, Shortstops and 2nd basemen are VERY scarce. In the current All-Time draft I'm doing on BBF (not the Bizarro one), there were only 3 SS I wanted on my team. Anyone else, I would have just used up some late pick to get somebody. There were a bit more options at 2nd base, but Hornsby had such a huge margin over the others.

Another thing is that I deduct points from Cobb because I believe he was one of the meanest players to play the game. And that hurts a team. A lot of people believe that Hornsby was also a clubhouse cancer, but from what I've seen so far, I don't think he was.
 

TheMadDog31

New Member
Another thing is that I deduct points from Cobb because I believe he was one of the meanest players to play the game.
This should in no way affect his place among the greats. Bonds and Ruth were both clubhouse cancers because of their massive egos and their dealings with the media, but apparently that doesn't affect their places on your list.

1. Ty Cobb
2. Babe Ruth
3. Rogers Hornsby
4. Stan Musial
5. Lou Gehrig
6. Mickey Mantle
7. Willie Mays
8. Hank Aaron
9. Ted Williams
10. Honus Wagner
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Wow MadDog, I never seen anyone rank Rogers Hornsby so high and Honus Wagner so low. Care to give a few explanations of your list for me?

Ty Cobb was a great player, one of the best, just wondering why you believe he was better then George Herman Ruth?

Why do you rank Hornsby so high, I'm not denying he was a great player, but rank third, that's pretty high.

Also like I mentioned before, I am surprise you have Honus Wagner at tenth, care to explain why you put him so low?
 
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