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This is whats wrong with health insurance companies

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
A Wisconsin woman said this week that she may have to file for bankruptcy because she was taken to an out-of-network hospital after having a heart attack, but now she owes more than $50,000 more than she would have if she had been taken to a hospital less than half a mile away.

Wisc. woman dies, comes back to life, but faces bankruptcy after insurance won’t pay ‘wrong’ hospital
This woman has a heart attack is unconscious but is penalized because she was taken to the wrong hospital. One not approved by her insurance company so they didn't want to pay the bill. She was in a coma. How was she suppose to tell them anything.

This is messed up.

Thoughts?
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
No, this is what is wrong with THIS insurance company and/or this policy. It's an argument for the need for reform and nothing more. Using this for more than that would just be anecdotal and not proof of anything.
 

The_Chameleon

Grandmaster
Well as much as you hate the comparison, here in Canada she would've been taken to the nearest hospital and covered regardless by health care and whatever additional health insurance she had. Funny things happen when insurance companies run hospitals. Well, actually not so funny.


- Cham
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
I could point to examples where someone in Canada who had to wait 6 months for a simple MRI and say "see? That's what happens in EVERY case of government run healthcare" but I wouldn't, because that would be an illogical conclusion. Logic tells me an incident here or there is anecdotal, and not conclusive.
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By that argument I had surgery ten years ago and underwent rehab and didn't pay one cent out of my own pocket therefore ALL insurance policies are awesome. But I wouldn't call that logical.
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By that argument I can point to Obamacare and say "See? This is what is wrong with government" and call for the elimination of ALL government and push for anarchy, but again, I wouldn't call that logical.
 
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The_Chameleon

Grandmaster
So you're saying this is a fairly isolated incident?

The backlogs in Canada are due to provincial mismanagement of the health care system, but the fact remains that nobody gets rejected insurance based on which hospital they are taken to... Ever. It would be considered an outrage. From what I understand it is in fact not that uncommon for it to happen in the states. But perhaps you have some actual stats on that.


- Cham
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
No, I'm saying it's a problem, not indicative of the entire system. Nobody gets rejected by a hospital here either...EVER. It's illegal to deny emergency care.

The backlogs are due to not enough supply to meet the demand, along with mismanagement by a system that does not reward monetarily. It's happens in EVERY command and control economy. It has since the beginning of time, yet every command and control economy aspires to be different.
 

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
Yes its illegal to deny emergency care and hopefully you can pay the bill. Often people that use an emergency room in this way don't have the money to pay the bill. So they have to file bankruptcy.

If you don't have insurance doctors are very slow to hospitalize you even if your really sick. I knew a woman this happened to. 51 years old and was having severe stomach problems. Doctor wouldn't hospitalize her because of lack of insurance and money, even after several visits, just kept throwing pills at her.

The last time she made the trip down because she was so sick, her teenage son driving her, she died. If she had been in any country with a national healthcare she would have lived. She had a busted colon, the infection killed her.

People have to wait for medical care here if you don't have money or good insurance. So I don't see the difference except here it just happens to the working poor.

I've had good insurance and not so good. If you have good insurance paid for by the company you work for I would say you have it great. I've had surgery when I had good insurance and never cost me much at all. When I had surgery with the not so good insurance I had to pay half.

Am I for Obamacare like it is, no, but we need to do something different here.
 

The_Chameleon

Grandmaster
For the longest time I didn't have medical insurance. I've been to the hospital for broken bones and other stuff and in one instance had to have an operation on my ankle. I didn't have to pay a dime for X-rays or the operation. The only thing I had to pay for was the pain killers and even that was subsidized. Is that how it is in the states?


... Wait times are long, but if the Provincial government wasn't so busy sending half our money to Quebec and using the other half to give themselves regular raises and bonuses, that wouldn't be an issue. The system structure is strong, it's the implementation that is weak. In the states, the structure is weak because it allows insurance companies to also provide health care, thus putting the health of Americans in the hands of entities whose first priority is to maximize profits. If you look at how well they in fact do increase profits, despite investments in R&D and cost of overhead and claims, it is quite impressive. If those profits where almost entirely reinvested in the provision of health care (As they would in a properly run government system), America would have the standard of health care it needs. But they aren't because those profits don't belong to the people and in fact are maximized by denying claims and services on the smallest technicalities.


- Cham
 

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
No if you have no insurance and you have surgery you pay for it and the drugs. If you can't pay you have to file bankruptcy and hopefully you don't lose your house.

Drugs are only paid for or at a reduced amount if you have that type of insurance coverage. Some insurance companies have a co-payment set up so no matter the cost of the drugs you always just pay 10 or 20 dollars.
 

Van

Heavy Weapons Guy
V.I.P.
For the longest time I didn't have medical insurance. I've been to the hospital for broken bones and other stuff and in one instance had to have an operation on my ankle. I didn't have to pay a dime for X-rays or the operation. The only thing I had to pay for was the pain killers and even that was subsidized. Is that how it is in the states?


... Wait times are long, but if the Provincial government wasn't so busy sending half our money to Quebec and using the other half to give themselves regular raises and bonuses, that wouldn't be an issue. The system structure is strong, it's the implementation that is weak. In the states, the structure is weak because it allows insurance companies to also provide health care, thus putting the health of Americans in the hands of entities whose first priority is to maximize profits. If you look at how well they in fact do increase profits, despite investments in R&D and cost of overhead and claims, it is quite impressive. If those profits where almost entirely reinvested in the provision of health care (As they would in a properly run government system), America would have the standard of health care it needs. But they aren't because those profits don't belong to the people and in fact are maximized by denying claims and services on the smallest technicalities.


- Cham
I've already covered this in the other thread...but free markets are the answer. As you mention, government run systems suck because they have huge wait times because the lovable political types siphon most of the funding for themselves (and no this won't stop which is why government should be smaller and not larger). Crony capitalism (large oligopolies backed by corrupt politicians) is not the answer either. This screws consumers and keeps costs high and only certain companies in power.

Actual free markets are the answer. The problem is liberal hacks claimed the free market system had failed with respect to the healthcare system. The lie is we didn't have a free market system to begin with. Over the last century, overreaching government regulations and corrupt bureaucrats stopped the free market from working. So you ended up with only a few large insurance companies, who held onto their power by lobbying to stop thing like letting people buy insurance over state lines, and stopping new companies from entering market. We need some regulation to be sure but it needs to make sure that free markets are allowed to operate not regulate them to death to drive up costs. In true free markets, companies with the best products/services at the best prices win. Companies that produce and treat their customers well will make the most money because they will grow their customer base. This drives down costs and drives value up. It's basic economics.
 
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