• Welcome to the PopMalt Forums! Whether you're new to forums or a veteran, welcome to our humble home on the web! We're a 20-year old forum community with thousands of discussions on entertainment, lifestyle, leisure, and more.

    Our rules are simple. Be nice and don't spam. Registration is free, so what are you waiting for? Join today!.

The shame of gay "rights"

SmilinSilhouette

Registered Member
Is that we have to talk about it. The same as women's rights, or minority rights, etc, etc.

The thing about rights is they are god-given, or natural if you prefer. They are human rights which apply to all living people. The idea that government gives rights is completely backwards. The people gave government limited rights, that is the authority to act on behalf of the people, but only within certain restrictions. The government can't give someone the right to love another, or marry them. That right is inherent in the person.

It really is too bad more people don't understand that.

Especially those in government.

/end rant
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
Well the problem you face is that some people are taught to believe that some people are naturally inferior and thus even by natural law do not deserve equal rights. You saw it with black people, you saw it with women and now with gays. It still happens to black people and women as a matter of fact. When it comes to gays, it tends to be religious prejudice (I actually haven't heard any other reason to be honest with you).

This is the real hard part of any rights issue is that it usually requires someone willing to rethink their position on a long held idea.
 

SmilinSilhouette

Registered Member
Yeah, you're right. People have the right to be douchebags. They reserve the right to remain ignorant. But they do not have the right to interfere with the rights of others. When they do, there are courts to address that situation.

But the thing I'm trying to get at is legislation to award rights to certain classes of individuals. If we would just stick to the principles of limited government, these types of issues wouldn't be politicized. Politicians would not need to make promises they have no right to offer. The divisive "our team is for (insert "special" constituency) and the other team is against" could come to an end.

Yeah, I'm a dreamer.
 

Crouton

Ninja
V.I.P.
Well the problem you face is that some people are taught to believe that some people are naturally inferior and thus even by natural law do not deserve equal rights.
I think the real shame here is that in this day and age, in the year 2011 we still have people on the Earth with such narrow-minded and judgmental ways of thinking. If it wasn't for these people then we wouldn't have to worry about gay, racial or women's rights. I really get tired sometimes when people defend homophobes by saying it's just how they were raised, or racist people by saying it's the environment they grew up in etc. To me that shouldn't be a reason to protect the ignorant of the world. Sure they may have messed up ideas in their on mind of how things should be, but it shouldn't make the exempt to bash the rights of others on no solid basis.
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
Problem is Crouton, that you need to put yourself in their shoes.

I'm not asking you to agree with them, but when you are taught something from a young age or learn it early on and it isn't challenged, it can be very hard to reverse that thinking. Imagine an idea like a newly planted tree. Given time, that tree is going to be hearty and large and very, very hard to uproot. You can think it's gross, weird, or wrong but that shouldn't give you the right to deny their rights, that's for sure. But it's hard to comment on it unless you can imagine yourself having to give up a long held idea.
 

Crouton

Ninja
V.I.P.
I know I know, you raise a point. I've actually tried before, I try putting myself in the shoes of someone who was raised their whole life to hate a particular race of human, or someone who grew up to believe that being homosexual was so wrong that they hate all gays before they even meet any. I just find it so difficult to try and see the world that way.

Although, when I do think about it if I see one of those strict Christian types who preach turning "gay people straight" for the good of God or whatever I can't help but feel sorry for them. They have been raised to think in such a narrow-minded way. While some of these people are hateful, others are genuine and generally think they are doing the right thing for the good on mankind and the welfare for that particular person.

In the end I have more in common with those people than I think. We both want exactly the same thing, which is for the other to see the light and open their eyes to the way the world should be. It really is a tough one, such a double-edged blade.
 

Smelnick

Creeping On You
V.I.P.
I think the real shame here is that in this day and age, in the year 2011 we still have people on the Earth with such narrow-minded and judgmental ways of thinking. If it wasn't for these people then we wouldn't have to worry about gay, racial or women's rights. I really get tired sometimes when people defend homophobes by saying it's just how they were raised, or racist people by saying it's the environment they grew up in etc. To me that shouldn't be a reason to protect the ignorant of the world. Sure they may have messed up ideas in their on mind of how things should be, but it shouldn't make the exempt to bash the rights of others on no solid basis.
Honestly, I don't think there will ever be a time when there aren't a group here or there that are narrow minded. It really is how some of them were raised or the environment they grew up in. Don't get me wrong though, this isn't an excuse. It's just the explanation.

@SS - You say it shouldn't be up to the government to 'give them rights'. I don't know if I'd view it that way. I think it's good that there are politicians that fight for the rights of them. Their not fighting to give them the rights, their fighting to make sure they don't lose those rights to the narrow minded people Crouton mentioned.
 

SmilinSilhouette

Registered Member
I think you make a good point, Merc. But without even putting yourself in their shoes we can resolve the issue. People have the right to hold whatever opinion they choose, and to express those views. Do I think neonazis are complete jackasses? Yes! Do they have the right to have those views and march in my hometown? Yes! Do they have the right to impose their stupid ideas on the rest of us? NO! Do they have the right to interfere with the rights of others? HELL NO!

If we take ownership of our rights as human beings and stop looking for a government to bequeath rights upon us then we would all be better off. The converse is also true. If we recognize the rights of others to hold views that we find abhorrent, then we would not need the government to restrict the rights of ignoramuses.

If you ask me that is true "diversity" not the fake "diversity" that requires everyone to think alike.
 
Last edited:

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
The problem Smel is that here in this country we get faced with the opposite, too. We get politicians that try to craft in clever or blatant ways to strip certain people of basic rights. Take this travesty for example. You'd think there'd be no problem visiting your gay partner in the hospital, right? Not on Governor Walker's watch. Now this isn't about Walker, it's just an example of something that should enrage a lot of people.
 

SmilinSilhouette

Registered Member
Again, we agree. That is total bullshit that their constitution takes rights away from individuals to have legal and binding contracts, giving whatever rights they desire to their partner. This is why democracy is so dangerous and why I have tried to emphasize the difference between democracy and a representative republic where government authority is limited and the majority can not vote to take away the natural rights of the minority.
 
Top