The Pete Rose Conundrum

Merc

Certified Shitlord
V.I.P.
#1
For the past week, I've come to a realization I'm sure many Reds fan did in 2007 when Mark McGwire's name first appeared on the Hall of Fame ballot. What I realized is that a man continuously attached to steroid use his whole career not to mention Barry Bonds were both eligible for the Hall of Fame and Rose was not.

My question is simple:

Why is betting on baseball (Rose did not bet against his own team FYI) considered worse than cheating at the actual game?
 

Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
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#2
I've always wondered that myself and I can't come up with an answer for it. I think Pete Rose deserves to be reinstated and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame before any player who has ever cheated or used banned substances.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
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#3
I agree with Echoes 100%. I've always thought Rose belonged in the Hall and even more so now that McGwire is on the ballot. I wish the commish would just reinstate him or at least make him eligible, the whole thing is ridiculous.
 

Merc

Certified Shitlord
V.I.P.
#4
I mean, I agree with not being allowed to manage again but yeah the guy is arguably one of the top 5 hitters the game has ever seen and they won't even let him in, it's bullshit.
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
#5
From what I've heard, at least some of the steroids used actually weren't illegal at the time. And there's the fact that while we pretty much know some of these guys did 'roids, it hasn't been proven yet.

Betting for your team can be almost as bad as betting against it, because you'll be tempted to overwork your players to get a win tonight, which sabotages them for future games. Even if Rose bet the exact same amount for each and every Reds game, the odds would fluctuate.

Steroid users have nothing to do with Rose. He should either be allowed or not allowed based on what he did. They should be allowed or not allowed based on what they did.

the guy is arguably one of the top 5 hitters the game has ever seen
Sure, you can argue it - but you'd be wrong. I wouldn't even consider him for the top 10, and he probably wouldn't make top 20.
 
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Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
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#6
I personally believe that he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. I don't condone what he did because betting on the game especially as a manager is not a good image for the league. I think he paid his dues, he has the numbers to back it up.

I agree with Wade, I don't think Rose is top ten hitter of all time, he might be the all time hits leader, but that doesn't mean he's one of the greatest hitters.
 

Merc

Certified Shitlord
V.I.P.
#7
Sure, you can argue it - but you'd be wrong. I wouldn't even consider him for the top 10, and he probably wouldn't make top 20.
Yeah, I mean, why should the all-time hits leader be considered one of the best? He only had 10 200+ hit seasons and 4256 hits. What a pushover, eh?

;)
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I agree with Wade, I don't think Rose is top ten hitter of all time, he might be the all time hits leader, but that doesn't mean he's one of the greatest hitters.
That's like saying just because Babe Ruth hit a lot of home runs, he shouldn't be considered one of the best power hitters of all time.
 
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Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
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#8
I'm not doubting that Pete Rose was a great hitter, I just believe there was better overall hitters then him. It's more then just hitting over 4,000 hits. Rose played over 3,500 games, he had close to 16,000 plate appearances. He finished his career batting .303 which is pretty good, but then just look at home of the best hitters like Babe Ruth who finished with a career .342, then Ty Cobb with .366, Honus Wagner with .327, Ted Williams .344 and I can keep going. Also I don't only consider Ruth the greatest power hitter because of the amount of home runs he hit, there's a lot more to it.
 

Merc

Certified Shitlord
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#9
You missed my point, BR.

Saying that Pete Rose is not one of the best hitters even though he holds the record for the most of them is ludicrous. Like I said, it would be like saying yeah, Hank Aaron is the all time home run leader (don't give me this Barry Bonds shit) but he's not one of the best home run hitters ever. Doesn't it just sound crazy to you?
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
#10
Being in the top 30 best hitters of all time is not bad. Just take into account on how many baseball players put on a uniform. Don't get me wrong 4,200 hits is damn impressive, but you cannot only take his overall hits into account. There's way more then that like average, home runs, slugging percentage and many more. Aaron is one of the best home run hitters, but he's another case like Pete Rose, he played the game for a long period of time. But I rank him in my top ten home run hitters of all time, maybe top five.