The Dutch leave Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Politics & Law' started by Ilus_Unistus, Aug 1, 2010.

  1. Ilus_Unistus

    Ilus_Unistus Registered Member

    Dutch contingent pulls out of Afghan war - Military : news, world | euronews

    It is shame to me the Dutch government had to have a collapse to decide to leave Afghanistan, but I think this will be the first of many to tell NATO or USA enough is enough. I know here in Estonia no one wants our troops there and we want them back but Estonia has no choice but support the USA's meaningless wars because we want/must be in NATO - This is the ONLY protection we have against Estonia's one and only enemy, not hard to know who this is...

    Estonia chooses the lesser of the 2 evils, so we do as the USA says only because EU does not have the power to tell them otherwise. This is the kind of pressure the USA uses over smaller countries it knows NEED NATO for protection and I for 1 am happy to see the Dutch begin what I hope is the end for all of us to stop protecting Poppies in Afghanistan and start protecting our selves against the US meaningless wars.

    Estonia fought for decades to be free of Soviet rule only now to only be bullied into sending troops to fight another tyrants wars.
     

  2. MAgnum9987

    MAgnum9987 Do What Thou Wilt

    The war in Afghanistan is by no means useless...... Its no different (IMO) than liberating Europe during WW2. Afghanistan was under the Talibans thumb and was harboring Al Queda. Women couldn't go in public without completely concealing their bodies. You had your arm chopped off for stealing. You were executed for being homosexual, a different religion, and other minor offenses. The original reason was to take down Al-Queda, but it has liberated millions of people.

    And if you are implying the USA is a bunch of bullies, well, to some extent I will agree with you, but we are not just wasting time. Liberating millions is a cause worthy of the lives sacrificed.
     
  3. Ilus_Unistus

    Ilus_Unistus Registered Member


    What I think you do not understand is Afghanistan is not America, many Americans have trouble understanding this. Most of the laws of Afghanistan are based on mostly religious belief. Americans see countries not doing as they do or feel is "right" and this becomes reason enough to invade and change these people. The problem is most of these people do not want to be Americans or even like them.

    I do not see how Afghanistan or even Iraq can be compared to WW2, not even close. One thing that sets Afghanistan apart from Iraq is, the military guarding Poppie fields... what is the reason for this? Poppies are made to produce Opium, is it the American interest to provide Opium to the world? They do not destroy these fields, they guard them, I see no reason for this unless America wishes to break into the illegal drug selling world, of course with the American falling economy maybe this is so? lol

    If it is the interest for America to "liberate" people, then why did the USA do nothing to help Estonia for decades who was under Russian oppression? Why was America involved with deals after WW2 to be sure Estonia was under Russian rule? Please save the "liberation" speech.
     
  4. MAgnum9987

    MAgnum9987 Do What Thou Wilt

    The reason we didn't save Estonia is this thing called "Mutually Assured Destruction."
    We have nukes, the Soviets have nukes, and if you do the math, you could see that we would Obliterate eachother......


    as for the poppy fields, quite frankly, its a thing that has been going on forever, and corruption somewhere along the line is the obvious source. But the intention wasn't from the start "Lets start a 100 Billion Dollar War
    and then steal a couple billion in drug money!" It doesn't work like that. I'll be the first to say Bush wasn't THAT dumb.....
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2010
  5. Ilus_Unistus

    Ilus_Unistus Registered Member


    Ahhh so it is US policy to "liberate" from the weak then? We fought Russia for decades, they never used them. But I guess Estonia fought for true liberation, not excuses to invade the weak.

    The USA did not learn from Russia's mistake of invading Afghanistan either, Russia lost, so will the USA and all of us who have no choice but to be there.


    Something you do not consider in your 100 Billion Dollar war, that is only what America has spent by choice. All the other countries have spent Billions as well because we had to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2010
  6. MAgnum9987

    MAgnum9987 Do What Thou Wilt

    You don't nuke your own people, thats why Russia didn't use them against you. That is completely different from the US forcing their way into Soviet Russia.


    Besides that, other than the drug money, how does the War in Afghanistan benefit the US? We are taking down Al Queda, and liberating millions. Its not like we are magically stealing oil (which Afghanistan doesn't have). And we have withdrawn from Iraq, so its not like we have their oil.

    And you forget that it is a UN COALITION in Afghanistan ATM. Afghanistan is a UN Approved war. Unlike Iraq but, look what Iraq has become. They are becoming a democracy. Were they not liberated?
     
  7. Ilus_Unistus

    Ilus_Unistus Registered Member

    Estonians are not Russian people. Not even same ethnicity.


    The US has withdrawn from Iraq? This is news to me... our EU troops must have not heard this news that are there either.

    Do you honestly believe every car bomb or road side bomb aimed at troops in either Iraq or Afghanistan is Al Queda? I think this is mostly ordinary citizen who feel threatened by the occupation and are doing something about it. Al Queda has become a reason not a force. If it was not for US presence and pressures in the Middle east to begin with Al Queda would have no concern with the US.

    The people of Iraq are trapped, much like Estonia but instead of Russian rule there only other option is Islamic rule. I do not see the people of Iraq as liberated, I see them much as we are, trapped with little choice for them selves against what the US says.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2010
  8. Bananas

    Bananas Endangered Species

    Afghanistan may not have oil but Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan do. Consider these countries are locked in by Russia, China and Iran, as well as Afghanistan. dont you think it would be convenient to have considerable influence over one of these countries enabling access to central Asian resources.

    You dont have to "have" the oil to profit from it.

    AL Queda are not in Afghanistan, they left about 7 years ago when the Taliban realised they were bad bed partners.

    Also western liberation differs greatly from central Asian liberation. they have a completely system of governing bodies, social moral standards and expectations to that of the west. Do not be fooled in thinking we are there liberating.

    No its not. ISAF is a division of NATO.

    No it was/is not.
     
  9. Xeilo

    Xeilo Registered Member V.I.P. Lifetime

    All I can say is thank fuck they are gone, while I was there they did nothing and it got on all our nerves. A lot more will be done now that they will be replaced by a lot of US troops.
     
  10. Ilus_Unistus

    Ilus_Unistus Registered Member

    I have read articles, seen people post in GF and other places how the people of Afghanistan and Iraq for that matter are happy the USA lead quest for "liberation" is what they want, even need. Then yesterday I had a chance to speak with someone who was a few grades ahead of me in school who joined the Estonian Military and returned from Afghanistan only 1 week ago.

    He told stories of how these people who are supposedly so thankful throw rocks, cans or anything they can throw at any Military presence they see. He said you can just be walking down a street and most people who see you shout curses or throw things at him. He says it is even worse when the USA soldiers are present.

    I asked him why, why are we still there, why is anyone still there? He said to this, because the USA believes they can brainwash these people into liking them and wanting to be like them... He said the US regulates much of the food and water for the many people and villages of Afghanistan, and is very slow to give out these supplies causing people to die from starvation or dehydration while just yards away soldiers use fresh drinking water to make small swimming pools to cool off in.

    He said how soldiers go from thinking and treating these people like trash to pretending to look helpful and caring when ever any media is there.

    It seems obvious to me from talking to someone who was there, we are not welcome there. The US lead mistreatment of these people will breed more hate and anger towards them or any other country forced to be there in the name of the USA. The USA is so powerful and "could" do so much good, yet more and more I see this power is used in the name of arrogance and ignorance to the rest of the world around it just like a few other nations in history, like Russia, or even to a degree, Nazi Germany.
     

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