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The Catholic Church

Ilus_Unistus

Registered Member
The Catholic Church along with Catholic groups such as the Knights of Columbus have done so much more in charity and giving than so many other groups and even countries yet what people associate the Church with is some priests who've done bad things. Maybe it's a PR problem but overall the Church has done far more good than bad and has made a huge difference to many poor and oppressed in the world.
Invalid, do you think the good outweighs the evil it has done through out time? Killing those who dare to translate the Bible, kill those who dare to think the world is not flat, kill those who opposed the Catholic Church, shall I continue?
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Invalid, do you think the good outweighs the evil it has done through out time? Killing those who dare to translate the Bible, kill those who dare to think the world is not flat, kill those who opposed the Catholic Church, shall I continue?
Um, yes, actually I do think the good outweighs the evil when you take into account the trillions given in aid thoughtout history. So what? What now?
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
Not for anything CO, but are you actually advocating that if you pay enough, you can overlook such tragedy? What if your wife was in an accident due to faulty equipment in her vehicle and died? How would it feel if the car company just said "Well, here's ten thousand dollars, we hope this covers it." You don't "buy" your way into paradise unless you're a scientologist.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Not for anything CO, but are you actually advocating that if you pay enough, you can overlook such tragedy? What if your wife was in an accident due to faulty equipment in her vehicle and died? How would it feel if the car company just said "Well, here's ten thousand dollars, we hope this covers it." You don't "buy" your way into paradise unless you're a scientologist.
I'm at a loss as to how anyone can interpret it that way. Haven't the trillions I mentioned saved lives and saved people from horrible living conditions? Really? Did those trillions in money and time spent just vanish in thin air?

BTW, when did I say anything about overlooking tragedy? All I said was the good outweighs the bad, I didn't say the bad doesn't exist. C'mon Cons, you're smarter than that.
------
@ Ilus - The money and time mentioned earlier in charity also saves lives.
 
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Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
I'm at a loss as to how anyone can interpret it that way. Haven't the trillions I mentioned saved lives and saved people from horrible living conditions? Really? Did those trillions in money and time spent just vanish in thin air?
First off, I'm not with Ilus's attitude so don't take it that way, just so you know.

Secondly, that's just how you said it. Sure, some money was spent to help people but it's not like we actually know how they spend their money, the church is under a financial blanket and can't be seen. I just think it sounds somewhat insensitive that money is apparently what will fix all that they've done and continue to do. To modify what I said previously, what if the car company promised you the money would go to fixing said problem that killed your wife? Would that really make you feel better?

The analogy is actually kind of weak because the church has straight out murdered people whereas this is just an accident I'm talking about.
 
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CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
First off, I'm not with Ilus's attitude so don't take it that way, just so you know.

Secondly, that's just how you said it. Sure, some money was spent to help people but it's not like we actually know how they spend their money, the church is under a financial blanket and can't be seen. I just think it sounds somewhat insensitive that money is apparently what will fix all that they've done and continue to do. To modify what I said previously, what if the car company promised you the money would go to fixing said problem that killed your wife? Would that really make you feel better?

The analogy is actually kind of weak because the church has straight out murdered people whereas this is just an accident I'm talking about.
No, I said from the beginning if you take into account everything and not just the Catholic Church but also groups associated with the Church, in totality, the good outweighs the bad. That's it. I'm not excusing the bad or justifying it, only that one minute point.
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
No, I said from the beginning if you take into account everything and not just the Catholic Church but also groups associated with the Church, in totality, the good outweighs the bad. That's it. I'm not excusing the bad or justifying it, only that one minute point.
You can't include "associates", that would take forever to justify. The thread is about the catholic church, not those who claim to be friends with them.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
You can't include "associates", that would take forever to justify. The thread is about the catholic church, not those who claim to be friends with them.
I'm not talking about friends with them, I'm talking about The Knights of Columbus, Catholic Charitities, etc...much has been done and paid by the Catholic Church and groups associated with the Church, so in my opinion they far outweigh the bad.
 

Sim

Registered Member
Probably it wouldn't be fair to blame the Catholic church for historical failures and crimes, much it wouldn't be fair to blame today's USA for slavery. It should be acknowledged and remembered, and responsibility taken, but I don't think it would be fair to blame it for that today.

A different thing are recent revelations about child abuse, or problematic stances that cause trouble (like the church's stance against condoms in regions that are ridden by HIV and AIDS). IMHO, they should be dealt with as they would be in case of any worldly organization: Personal consequences have to be taken, investigations should be made, and transparency given. The church itself must draw consequences for their own behavior in the past, in order to avoid further such mistakes in the future. Unless that happens, it's justified to blame the Catholic church and demand change.

The biggest obstacle in these regards probably is the CC's status as religious authority. Many people don't see it as just an organization as there are others, it's the one source for moral authority. That makes consequences more difficult. But in its own self-interest, the church should do that, before even more people turn their backs on it.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Probably it wouldn't be fair to blame the Catholic church for historical failures and crimes, much it wouldn't be fair to blame today's USA for slavery. It should be acknowledged and remembered, and responsibility taken, but I don't think it would be fair to blame it for that today.

A different thing are recent revelations about child abuse, or problematic stances that cause trouble (like the church's stance against condoms in regions that are ridden by HIV and AIDS). IMHO, they should be dealt with as they would be in case of any worldly organization: Personal consequences have to be taken, investigations should be made, and transparency given. The church itself must draw consequences for their own behavior in the past, in order to avoid further such mistakes in the future. Unless that happens, it's justified to blame the Catholic church and demand change.

The biggest obstacle in these regards probably is the CC's status as religious authority. Many people don't see it as just an organization as there are others, it's the one source for moral authority. That makes consequences more difficult. But in its own self-interest, the church should do that, before even more people turn their backs on it.
Good point and I agree with you, it isn't fair. But to be fair the OP did question whether the Church has been a positive or negative influence in the world so I can understand someone taking the historical perspective.

In regards to Con's question, it's an unfair one. It asks for a personal specific reaction when the question posed is a broad subjective one. To the individual that was molested by a priest who reported to Cardinal Law for example, of course the he would see the Church as bad. Regardless of whether the Church paid him money in a settlement or not. But my response is much more general rather than a specific example because that is the question the OP asked. Thus my nonresponse to his question, it isn't germane to the question posed.
 
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