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Tea Party FTW!

Gavik

Registered Member
Maybe I'm just an optimist but I do hope that the status quo can be changed within the existing system.
What change are we talking about? I have yet to see any fundamental difference between the tea republican sect ideas and those of the rest of the republicans. Anti gay marriage/adoption, anti abortion (how either of those is libertarian is beyond me), cutting "welfare" and "spending" (with no clarification on either), being mad about illegal immigration, underlying tones of evangelical christianity, gun rights, opposition to anthropogenic global warming theories, not letting gays in the military and so on. Seriously, did they copy and paste the republican platform?

Aside from the hints about armed rebellion if they lose the midterms and a very, very rare call to audit the federal reserve, I see no difference between this tea "party" and the establishment.

Again, maybe. Or maybe this will send the message up the chain that the ruling class is being put on notice.
It's mostly astroturf. Same way how the insurance companies were behind most of that town hall "outrage" last summer.
 

SmilinSilhouette

Registered Member
On notice of what, pray tell? That some peasants are upset? They don't care. The masses are fat and complacent. We are appeased by bread and circuses and thinking this tea party is nothing more than a circus is asinine and ignorant. They get a little bit of the spotlight so they think they're doing something when in reality nothing they say or do matters. The masses think they're a bunch of stupid rednecks, the "powers that be" don't give a flying fuck what they think, so what do they really have other than 15 minutes of fame, if not infamy, and being outcasted from the rest of society?
Jeremy spoke in class today!:lol: (that is a Pearl Jam reference, not intended as mockery) Welcome Jeremy, hope you enjoy GF!

Well, I'm sure many of the ruling class don't care as they think they know better than the unwashed masses. I'm glad I don't share your pessimism. Only time will tell. It has happened before you know, the formerly worst president in recent history, Carter, led to Reagan. It can happen again as the pendulum swings the other way.
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What change are we talking about? I have yet to see any fundamental difference between the tea republican sect ideas and those of the rest of the republicans. Anti gay marriage/adoption, anti abortion (how either of those is libertarian is beyond me), cutting "welfare" and "spending" (with no clarification on either), being mad about illegal immigration, underlying tones of evangelical christianity, gun rights, opposition to anthropogenic global warming theories, not letting gays in the military and so on. Seriously, did they copy and paste the republican platform?
Well we have completely different ideas about what the tea party does and does not represent.

Aside from the hints about armed rebellion if they lose the midterms and a very, very rare call to audit the federal reserve, I see no difference between this tea "party" and the establishment.
Given your assessment of what the tea party means to you I can see why you would be of that opinion.

It's mostly astroturf. Same way how the insurance companies were behind most of that town hall "outrage" last summer.
That's what they like to say on the Huffington post et al. Just another dismissive technique to use as an excuse to ignore constituients. Oh BTW, insurance companies were the big winners in Obamacare. What other product or service has the government decided to force citizens to buy?
 
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MenInTights

not a plastic bag
What change are we talking about? I have yet to see any fundamental difference between the tea republican sect ideas and those of the rest of the republicans. Anti gay marriage/adoption, anti abortion (how either of those is libertarian is beyond me), cutting "welfare" and "spending" (with no clarification on either), being mad about illegal immigration, underlying tones of evangelical christianity, gun rights, opposition to anthropogenic global warming theories, not letting gays in the military and so on. Seriously, did they copy and paste the republican platform?

Aside from the hints about armed rebellion if they lose the midterms and a very, very rare call to audit the federal reserve, I see no difference between this tea "party" and the establishment.
The guy that beat Murkowski ran on the platform of returning the Federal lands in Alaska back to the state. That's rather different.

Many Republicans are pro-abortion. Many Republicans have never met an earmark they didn't vote for. Many Republicans voted in favor of Bush's Medicare Part D and some Republicans did not support the Bush tax cuts.
There is a lot of real estate to go before the Republican party becomes a Conservative party. There was a time way back in 2007-2008 that many Conservatives were shocked at a budget deficient that approached $500B. (Dear Lord, what I would give for such a 'small' deficient after the last 2 years.)

It's mostly astroturf. Same way how the insurance companies were behind most of that town hall "outrage" last summer.
You don't get it. An astroturf movement would never be able to place 80+ seats in the House and win the Senate. Regardless of the fact that Obama is as popular as a piece of wood, the Republicans lead by TeaParty Conservatives are going to overtake politics in November.
 

Gavik

Registered Member
the formerly worst president in recent history, Carter, led to Reagan. It can happen again as the pendulum swings the other way.
Brushing past the bizarre Carter remark, your idea of someone to bring about change is Reagan?

Well we have completely different ideas about what the tea party does and does not represent.
Care to provide evidence to the contrary?

Given your assessment of what the tea party means to you I can see why you would be of that opinion.
It's really their only claim to fame. Otherwise they're just a slightly different shade of red.

That's what they like to say on the Huffington post et al. Just another dismissive technique to use as an excuse to ignore constituients.
So where's the money coming from?

Oh BTW, insurance companies were the big winners in Obamacare. What other product or service has the government decided to force citizens to buy?
Well obviously. I was referring to the period when the public option was still on the table.
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The guy that beat Murkowski ran on the platform of returning the Federal lands in Alaska back to the state. That's rather different.
And that's going to fix America?

Many Republicans are pro-abortion. Many Republicans have never met an earmark they didn't vote for. Many Republicans voted in favor of Bush's Medicare Part D and some Republicans did not support the Bush tax cuts.
How many of them are mainstream, national party figures?

You don't get it. An astroturf movement would never be able to place 80+ seats in the House and win the Senate.
And why not?
 
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MenInTights

not a plastic bag
The guy that beat Murkowski ran on the platform of returning the Federal lands in Alaska back to the state. That's rather different.
And that's going to fix America?
Its a great idea, but that's another thread. The point is there are ideas such as this and eliminating the department of education that are coming from the TeaParty movement, not the Republican party.

I made a thread a few weeks ago: http://www.generalforum.com/law-pol...lican-party-settles-issue-once-all-75528.html
that shows what the GOP elite really think about the TeaParty:
When Kentucky US Senate candidate Rand Paul said that if elected he would seek to join forces with Tea Party-minded senators like Jim DeMint (SC), and possibly current senate candidates like Mike Lee of Utah and Sharron Angle of Nevada, former Senate majority leader Trent Lott (R-MS) told the Washington Post, “We don’t need a lot of Jim DeMint disciples.” Warning of any such possible bloc of rogue Republican senators, Lott added “As soon as they get here, we need to co-opt them.”
 

Gavik

Registered Member
Its a great idea, but that's another thread. The point is there are ideas such as this and eliminating the department of education that are coming from the TeaParty movement, not the Republican party.
And yet the idea of eliminating the department of education isn't new.

I made a thread a few weeks ago: http://www.generalforum.com/law-pol...lican-party-settles-issue-once-all-75528.html
that shows what the GOP elite really think about the TeaParty:
Still republicans.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
They're not necessarily Republicans but conservatives. There are differences between them. It appears what the Tea Party stands for is what the Republicans claim to stand for but do not. So you can say they cut and paste a lot of the Republican platform but they actually appear to believe in those things.

Just my .02 cents.

As a side note regarding the issue of gay marriage and the Tea Party and Republican's "platform" on that issue, I would argue a conservative would agree with Judge Walker's opinion as federal intrusion in a state function. It comes down to state's rights which I always thought conservatives touted.
 
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MenInTights

not a plastic bag
As a side note regarding the issue of gay marriage and the Tea Party and Republican's "platform" on that issue, I would argue a conservative would agree with Judge Walker's opinion as federal intrusion in a state function. It comes down to state's rights which I always thought conservatives touted.
This brought something into focus for me about the TeaParty. Right now, the party is really 2 issues: spend and tax less. If there was a card to carry for the TeaParty a person's opinion on gay marriage, abortion and other social issues wouldn't matter at all, likewise many military issues wouldn't matter. Its really a perfect setup for reform politicians as it allows a candidate to have one foot in the TeaParty and one foot in the Republican or Democrat party. It also allows for a true big-tent party and explains why the TeaParty should never be a 3rd party. Once you become a 3rd party, you have to take stands on all of those issues which will detract from the true message.

EDIT:
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This poll: The Winston Group Behind the Headlines: What’s driving the Tea Party Movement? Sort of highlights my idea that the TeaParty is a big tent party focused on 2 issues.

This is some astonishing demographics:
In three national surveys, done for New Models from December 2009 through February 2010, 57% of Tea Party members called themselves Republicans, another 28% said they were Independents, and 13% were Democrats. Two-thirds of Tea Party members identify as conservatives but 26% say they are moderate and 8% described themselves as liberal
And this is the polling for the 2 issues economy and jobs.
In the February 2010 New Models study, 36% of Tea Party members name the economy and jobs as their top issue with national deficit and spending close behind at 21% — over twice as high as the overall electorate.
 
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Gavik

Registered Member
They're not necessarily Republicans but conservatives. There are differences between them. It appears what the Tea Party stands for is what the Republicans claim to stand for but do not. So you can say they cut and paste a lot of the Republican platform but they actually appear to believe in those things.
A lot of the supporters may be genuine, but as of now they're running in republican primaries on republican party lines.

As a side note regarding the issue of gay marriage and the Tea Party and Republican's "platform" on that issue, I would argue a conservative would agree with Judge Walker's opinion as federal intrusion in a state function. It comes down to state's rights which I always thought conservatives touted.
You are correct, and I've acknowledged this in the past. However, anti gay marriage positions can be found throughout the movement. For instance, take this questionnaire that was reposted here.

We are a Tea Party Group in Erie County called The Freedom Institute of Erie County and we are preparing a Conservative voter guide and would like help from your candidates. We ask they answer the following 15 questions so that we can more clearly define their position on many items. These answers will be put into our voter guide and allow us to rate, recommend, and endorse candidates. Without these questions being answered we cannot give a full endorsement of your candidate…You are allowed qualifiers to your answers but please keep it short sweet and simple. We intend to distribute this list in Erie County and hope it to reach 1,000+ Republicans and at least 4.000+ Independents that have a history of voting conservatively.

1. The Right to Life is a Constitutional right, therefore innocent human beings should have legal protection from conception until natural death. If you hold any exceptions please state them.

3. Marriage is defined as being between a man and a woman, any other type of Union is not marriage.
4. Children should not be placed into foster homes where the parents are homosexual, bisexual, or transgender.

10. I oppose the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy of the military and believe that all same sex partners should be banned from combat duty in the military because of the propensity to transmit blood-borne diseases in the theatre of battle.
If there was a card to carry for the TeaParty a person's opinion on gay marriage, abortion and other social issues wouldn't matter at all, likewise many military issues wouldn't matter.
I think a lot of the people at those rallies would disagree.

Its really a perfect setup for reform politicians as it allows a candidate to have one foot in the TeaParty and one foot in the Republican or Democrat party. It also allows for a true big-tent party and explains why the TeaParty should never be a 3rd party. Once you become a 3rd party, you have to take stands on all of those issues which will detract from the true message.

...

Sort of highlights my idea that the TeaParty is a big tent party focused on 2 issues.
But they're not a party. Despite a 13% were democrats and 8% were liberal, that's minuscule. There is no liberal tea "party" voice. They're exclusively running conservative candidates in republican primaries.
 
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CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
You are correct, and I've acknowledged this in the past. However, anti gay marriage positions can be found throughout the movement. For instance, take this questionnaire that was reposted here.
Wow, I agree, that questionnaire is fucked up. I would answer #3 as I agree. Then when I back gay marriage and called on it by the Tea Party I'd argue "The question asks what defines gay marriage presently, it doesn't say how it should be defined now":lol:
 
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