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Support for Gay Marriage Has Never Been Higher

Iris

rainbow 11!
Yeah, but I could certainly see churches losing members. If it's one or two, they won't care. But if they start losing a significant amount of people? That makes a difference. I'm not saying they have or should for moral reasons, it'd be nice if they did, but times I can't imagine a church having many members if they still bitch about gay marriage. At least in the future.

There is a church in North Carolina that has ceased all marriages until the state legalizes gay marriage.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
The Scriptural Basis for a Geocentric Cosmology

Also, to add. Numerous churches allow divorced people to marry, despite the Bible's pronouncements that remarriage is, in most cases, akin to adultery.
These things always make me laugh because they take Scripture completely out of context. BESIDES, you're trying to compare opinion, homsexuality is or isn't a sin, versus fact, the earth revolves around the sun. The comparison is specious, at best.

Yes, the Catholic Church will allow you to remarry, if the first marriage is annulled.

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Yeah, but I could certainly see churches losing members. If it's one or two, they won't care. But if they start losing a significant amount of people? That makes a difference. I'm not saying they have or should for moral reasons, it'd be nice if they did, but times I can't imagine a church having many members if they still bitch about gay marriage. At least in the future.

There is a church in North Carolina that has ceased all marriages until the state legalizes gay marriage.
If they lose a significant amount of people they lose a significant amount of people. The Church shouldn't change it's principles because society does. If society becomes more secular the church should too? How is that even possible? How can a church be secular? The Church believes in what it believes in, if people decide not to follow it anymore so be it.
 
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Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
These things always make me laugh because they take Scripture completely out of context. BESIDES, you're trying to compare opinion, homsexuality is or isn't a sin, versus fact, the earth revolves around the sun. The comparison is specious, at best.
Usury.

Also, was just searching and found this:

Interracial marriage as a sin:

Interracial marriage in the Bible
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Usury.

Also, was just searching and found this:

Interracial marriage as a sin:

Interracial marriage in the Bible
Ok, I'll try one more time. If you read that link you see "this is sometimes interpreted as" and "at least one supremacist group" in other words because the KKK has used these Bible passages to justify racism doesn't mean squat. The Catholic Church's stance has been to marry in the Church both parties must be Catholic AND undergone the sacraments such as Baptism, Communion, Confession, Confirmation. Once again you're confusing doctrine and pratice.
 

Iris

rainbow 11!
Maybe I'm not explaining it well.

Okay so let's take a random mom and pop store. Say mom and pop hate interracial marriage. Blacks should marry blacks, whites with whites blah blah blah. In today's society people would have abbig problem and most likely not shop their. That hurts business. Eventually they either change or close. That's kinda what I'm saying with the church.

Don't they need donations? If a very small group attends a church and they don't receive any funding.... They will have to change or close or downsize or whatever. You see?
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Ok, I'll try one more time. If you read that link you see "this is sometimes interpreted as" and "at least one supremacist group" in other words because the KKK has used these Bible passages to justify racism doesn't mean squat. The Catholic Church's stance has been to marry in the Church both parties must be Catholic AND undergone the sacraments such as Baptism, Communion, Confession, Confirmation. Once again you're confusing doctrine and pratice.
Ah, so very different from homosexuality.

The “Homosexuality” Debate: Two Streams of Biblical Interpretation | Peace Theology
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Maybe I'm not explaining it well.

Okay so let's take a random mom and pop store. Say mom and pop hate interracial marriage. Blacks should marry blacks, whites with whites blah blah blah. In today's society people would have abbig problem and most likely not shop their. That hurts business. Eventually they either change or close. That's kinda what I'm saying with the church.

Don't they need donations? If a very small group attends a church and they don't receive any funding.... They will have to change or close or downsize or whatever. You see?
No you are, I see where you are coming from, and I agree with you. The problem is the mom and pop can just stop saying what they believe is right or wrong so they don't lose business but they're not going against their principles but either not saying what they believe or even conforming to what society believes. In other words the mom and pop are still married to each other, they're not divorcing and marrying someone of a different race.

How can the Church do they same with their principles? How can the Catholic Church change their position on abortion for example? The taking of a life is the taking of a life is the taking of a life in their view, how can they compromise their beliefs simply because abortion is more socially acceptable?
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Yes, it's someone's opinion. I made a thread here called Gay Marriage and the New Testament where I made the argument Christians should accept gay marriage. I don't see the Church adopting that position anytime soon. I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
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Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Let me take this is another direction.

Let's say that the Catholic church and other denominations don't come around on gay marriage. I think they will, in some form or another, or at least soften their stances considerably, but let's say they don't come around.

You can still rest assured that many individual Christians will come around, nonetheless. And they will have to square their stance on this issue with their general support of Biblical teachings. Now, people do it all the time in particular on things like stoning adulterers and eating pork, which frequently get brought up. But this one is different because it's a taboo that existed in their own time, and that they were brought up believing was still vital.

I want to see how people square it. I'd like to hear, in fact, how they already do, considering 58 percent of people in a nation that is 90 percent Christian support not just homosexuality, but same-sex marriage.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Let me take this is another direction.

Let's say that the Catholic church and other denominations don't come around on gay marriage. I think they will, in some form or another, or at least soften their stances considerably, but let's say they don't come around.

You can still rest assured that many individual Christians will come around, nonetheless. And they will have to square their stance on this issue with their general support of Biblical teachings. Now, people do it all the time in particular on things like stoning adulterers and eating pork, which frequently get brought up. But this one is different because it's a taboo that existed in their own time, and that they were brought up believing was still vital.

I want to see how people square it. I'd like to hear, in fact, how they already do, considering 58 percent of people in a nation that is 90 percent Christian support not just homosexuality, but same-sex marriage.
My response is still...And? I've already said I've made the argument that Christians, followers of the New Testament, shouldn't have a problem with same sex marriage. So what? How is that going to make the Church change it's stance? And if they Church does not change it's stance it does not affect me, as I will never ask the Church to marry me and marry another man.

Just real quick, there is no "reconciling of beliefs" when it comes to stoning and eating pork, the difference is the Covenant Abraham made with God in the OT and the NEW Covenant Jesus made between man and God in the New Testament. There was no "squaring" with different teachings. The New Covenant did not do away with homosexuality being a sin.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
My response is still...And? I've already said I've made the argument that Christians, followers of the New Testament, shouldn't have a problem with same sex marriage. So what? How is that going to make the Church change it's stance? And if they Church does not change it's stance it does not affect me, as I will never ask the Church to marry me and marry another man.

Just real quick, there is no "reconciling of beliefs" when it comes to stoning and eating pork, the difference is the Covenant Abraham made with God in the OT and the NEW Covenant Jesus made between man and God in the New Testament. There was no "squaring" with different teachings. The New Covenant did not do away with homosexuality being a sin.
You understand that the Church is starving for members, correct?

Clearly most American Catholics don't take its doctrine very seriously these days, particularly on birth control. However, discrimination is something that people don't want to be associated with. It's different.
 
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