Stimulus passes House 244-188

MenInTights

not a plastic bag
#11
At least 1/2 of those states went to Obama.

FL, IN, PA, MN, NC (from memory - will check later when I have a moment)

Those guys killed any chance they have at a chair. I still say its a brave move.
 

Stab-o-Matic5000

Cutting Edge in Murder
#12
At least 1/2 of those states went to Obama.

FL, IN, PA, MN, NC (from memory - will check later when I have a moment)

Those guys killed any chance they have at a chair. I still say its a brave move.
All of those except Minnesota and Pennsylvania voted for Bush in 2004 though, and Indiana hadn't voted for a Democrat candidate for President for over 40 years before 2008. That still doesn't take into account how the specific districts the representatives are from generally vote. For instance, Michigan is considered a blue state, but my district has a Republican for our House Representative. Fred Upton has been in office for longer than I have been alive. If he were ever to be defeated by a Democrat, that Democrat would have to be very centrist to retain the seat.
 

MenInTights

not a plastic bag
#13
All of those except Minnesota and Pennsylvania voted for Bush in 2004 though, and Indiana hadn't voted for a Democrat candidate for President for over 40 years before 2008. That still doesn't take into account how the specific districts the representatives are from generally vote. For instance, Michigan is considered a blue state, but my district has a Republican for our House Representative. Fred Upton has been in office for longer than I have been alive. If he were ever to be defeated by a Democrat, that Democrat would have to be very centrist to retain the seat.
Alot of Republicans and Democrats voted against the original $700B bailout and then voted against it even after Bush and McCain came to the Hill and begged them to support it. There are some guys on both sides that are showing some courage.

I just picked a guy from the list at random: Kratovil from MD.
http://www.kratovil.com/
this is a blurb from his website:
In Congress, I will refuse to stand by and watch lawmakers continue mortgaging our nation’s future as the dollar plummets to new lows. I’ll fight to put an end to this fiscal insanity by working with like-minded Democrats and Republicans to balance our national checkbook and cut wasteful spending. I’ll fight to:
-good job dude! He actually stuck by his campaign promise. He's a freshman Rep and he's got to be one lonely guy right now. He's not going to be invited to any of the Democrat parties. I'm sure this is a heavy Republican district, but even so, I'm sure this vote took some major balls to cast.
 
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#14
Zero lower bound - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com
The House has passed the stimulus bill with not a single Republican vote.
Aren’t you glad that Obama watered it down and added ineffective tax cuts, so as to win bipartisan support?
Did anyone say tit for tat? ...They're fighting for spending money - either towards the higher bracket.. plus some of the lower bracket - or towards the higher income bracket only. Congress' customers are happy either way. While no one really knows exactly what's being spent.
 

ExpectantlyIronic

e̳̳̺͕ͬ̓̑̂ͮͦͣ͒͒h̙ͦ̔͂?̅̂ ̾͗̑
#15
After reading about the bill in the paper (a couple, in fact), I have to say I like a good deal of it, and think it will help matters. It will certainly be a boon to Michigan. A lot of folks may have liked the bill to be a little more focused, and have less of a shotgun approach, but we don't know the exact nature and length of the recession we're facing, and what will work best depends a lot on that. There are some dubious things in the bill, like tax cuts that aren't properly targeted to maximize their impact, but I think the bad is made up for by the good.
 

Kazmarov

For a Free Scotland
#16
Democrats that voted against it:
Boyd - Florida
Bright - Alabama
Cooper - Tennessee
Ellsworth - Indiana
Griffith - Alabama
Kanjorski - PA
Kratovil - Maryland
Minnick - Idaho
Peterson - Minnesota
Shuler - North Carolina
Taylor - Mississippi

You can't discount these guys. That's a brave move to oppose Pelosi and Obama right now. Being a Republican is easy. These 11 guys are really laying it on the line.
At least 1/2 of those states went to Obama.

FL, IN, PA, MN, NC (from memory - will check later when I have a moment)

Those guys killed any chance they have at a chair. I still say its a brave move.
1. It's not about states, it's about districts. Alabama has a district that votes overwhelmingly Democratic, and several that vote overwhelmingly Republican. Most of these guys are in Republican DVI districts (as the Democratic Party is in control of many of these districts following two Republican congressional defeats), or freshman who don't have solid connections with their constituents and fundraisers yet.

2. Due to this, it's not about 'bravery' it's about politics. Both the Republican refusal to vote for the bill, which had been changed in several ways on their demand, and the Democratic dissent both have far more to do with transient politics than anything else.
 

MenInTights

not a plastic bag
#17
1. It's not about states, it's about districts. Alabama has a district that votes overwhelmingly Democratic, and several that vote overwhelmingly Republican. Most of these guys are in Republican DVI districts (as the Democratic Party is in control of many of these districts following two Republican congressional defeats), or freshman who don't have solid connections with their constituents and fundraisers yet.

2. Due to this, it's not about 'bravery' it's about politics. Both the Republican refusal to vote for the bill, which had been changed in several ways on their demand, and the Democratic dissent both have far more to do with transient politics than anything else.
I agree with you to some extent, but I've heard a lot of guys say that if you oppose the leadership of the party, you have hell to pay. Its no big deal opposing the leadership on small issues, but with this measure my guess is there was serious pressure applied to vote along party lines. At the end of the day, its probably a lot easier to vote with party and take the heat at the 4th of July parade than to oppose the Speaker and take the heat every day at work.

There's also the arguement that these districts aren't going to forget this issue in 2 years, so they were acting out of fear.

If either one of the situations I laid out is true, its proof that the system worked. I'm so disenfranchised with Washington, I look for hope anywhere I can find it. I may be reading too much into this, but I really don't think so.
 
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ILOVEUSA911

Registered Member
#18
After reading about the bill in the paper (a couple, in fact), I have to say I like a good deal of it, and think it will help matters. It will certainly be a boon to Michigan. A lot of folks may have liked the bill to be a little more focused, and have less of a shotgun approach, but we don't know the exact nature and length of the recession we're facing, and what will work best depends a lot on that. There are some dubious things in the bill, like tax cuts that aren't properly targeted to maximize their impact, but I think the bad is made up for by the good.
With all due respect, how can a stimulus package chocked full of spending pork going to stimulate the economy? For instance, how is $300 million to prevent STDs going to stimulate the economy? Or $11 million for the arts? The percentage of money that will actually go to stimulate the economy is not the majority of the package. I'm proud that my Congressman had the guts to say no to this package.
 

ExpectantlyIronic

e̳̳̺͕ͬ̓̑̂ͮͦͣ͒͒h̙ͦ̔͂?̅̂ ̾͗̑
#19
ILOVEUSA911 said:
With all due respect, how can a stimulus package chocked full of spending pork going to stimulate the economy? For instance, how is $300 million to prevent STDs going to stimulate the economy? Or $11 million for the arts? The percentage of money that will actually go to stimulate the economy is not the majority of the package. I'm proud that my Congressman had the guts to say no to this package.
Artists spend money. The wellbeing of the labor force and potential labor force, state of American infrastructure, and amount of money consumers have available to spend; all have a significant impact on the economy. The stimulus package seems largely aimed at killing multiple birds with one stone, as opposed to just randomly tossing money at people. All money the government spends goes somewhere and to someone.
 
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ILOVEUSA911

Registered Member
#20
Artists spend money. The wellbeing of the labor force and potential labor force, state of American infrastructure, and amount of money consumers have available to spend; all have a significant impact on the economy. The stimulus package seems largely aimed at killing multiple birds with one stone, as opposed to just randomly tossing money at people. All money the government spends goes somewhere and to someone.
Yes, all money the government spends goes somewhere and to someone. I personally would like to see it go to not just somewhere or someone, but where it's going to kick our economy back into gear. The current stimulus package isn't designed to do that. There needs to be a lot of cutting of the items in the bill that have nothing to do with stimulating the economy and then I'll be on board. Until then I'm totally against it.
 
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