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Steve Jobs on the Economy - the jobs aren't coming back

Wade8813

Registered Member
President Obama asked Steve Jobs "What would it take to make iPhones in the United States?"

Mr. Jobs’s reply was unambiguous. “Those jobs aren’t coming back,” he said, according to another dinner guest.

...

Apple executives say that going overseas, at this point, is their only option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a Chinese factory to revamp iPhone manufacturing just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.



A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.
Our economy can't compete with this. We can't compete with underpaid Chinese workers who live at the factory and work 12 hours a day.

I've heard it suggested that America needs to abandon our manufacturing focus (like we had to abandon our agricultural focus). The problem with that is most people are incapable of surviving in a science, technology, and innovation driven economy.

Sound Economy with Jon Talton | Jobs on jobs: They ain't coming back | Seattle Times Newspaper

(The above article is basically the summarized version - the below article is the long, more in-depth version)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/b...&hp&adxnnlx=1329380955-wcJ1 E1kbx P3X9Z3/BNQQ
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
Some people blame regulation.

Some people blame lack thereof.

The problem is nearly every big company manufactures their products overseas because it's easier cheaper that way. Plus it saves them tax dollars and paying even a low American wage. The workers that build these Apple products probably make a buck or two an hour, keeping costs incredibly low for Apple and like companies. There's also nothing in American law that prevents them from shipping jobs overseas or anything that benefit them from keeping them here.

It's a problem we've had for awhile and it's that we allow the wrong freedoms to big companies. Sure, they shouldn't be as harshly regulated as they are but at the same time, restrictions and benefits need to be put into place that encourage them to return their jobs to this country.
 

Random9

Registered Member
Some people blame regulation.

Some people blame lack thereof.

The problem is nearly every big company manufactures their products overseas because it's easier cheaper that way. Plus it saves them tax dollars and paying even a low American wage. The workers that build these Apple products probably make a buck or two an hour, keeping costs incredibly low for Apple and like companies. There's also nothing in American law that prevents them from shipping jobs overseas or anything that benefit them from keeping them here.

It's a problem we've had for awhile and it's that we allow the wrong freedoms to big companies. Sure, they shouldn't be as harshly regulated as they are but at the same time, restrictions and benefits need to be put into place that encourage them to return their jobs to this country.
the problem isn't that companies go overseas,the problem is that they have reason to do so,minimum wage(and other benefits given to employees) is too high for them to keep production in the US.

if you forbid them to have factories in china they will simply move the entire company to china(or go bankrupt due to competition with companies who are allowed to have factories in china)-which will harm the US economy even more.

simply put you want too much for too little.(which can be seen by the chinese agreeing to do the same job for way less)
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
It's possible that we want too much for too little - but it seems likely that the Chinese are accepting too little because they're being oppressed, and this just serves to further oppress them.
 

Random9

Registered Member
It's possible that we want too much for too little - but it seems likely that the Chinese are accepting too little because they're being oppressed, and this just serves to further oppress them.
well india is in a rather similar situation to that of china on the matter,so i guess we could ask fractal. but i don't see how moving production from china is going to reduce their oppression, nor why we shouldn't take advantage of it.(their "willingness" to work for little)
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
well india is in a rather similar situation to that of china on the matter,so i guess we could ask fractal. but i don't see how moving production from china is going to reduce their oppression, nor why we shouldn't take advantage of it.(their "willingness" to work for little)
Having terrible jobs may oppress them less than no jobs, but these are still terrible jobs. Also, it may have the net effect of increasing oppression, because the best way to prevent people from rising up and changing the way things are is to make their conditions almost tolerable to them, and to work them so hard they're too exhausted to engage in real change.

As to why we shouldn't take advantage of it, a lot of it depends on what your goals are. Short term profit? Or long term sustainability, socio-economic growth, and the betterment of humanity?
 

Random9

Registered Member
Having terrible jobs may oppress them less than no jobs, but these are still terrible jobs. Also, it may have the net effect of increasing oppression, because the best way to prevent people from rising up and changing the way things are is to make their conditions almost tolerable to them, and to work them so hard they're too exhausted to engage in real change.
that's their responsibility not ours, the companies there aren't forcing them to work,they are only giving them an option to do so.
As to why we shouldn't take advantage of it, a lot of it depends on what your goals are. Short term profit? Or long term sustainability, socio-economic growth, and the betterment of humanity?
if you take advantage of another society/country then you help your own while harming(sort of) them.(and i'm pretty sure this is something everyone(in the group which gets the advantage) is happy with)
 

SmilinSilhouette

Registered Member
I'm pretty sure having jobs isn't hurting China, their standard of living is rising. By that theory we should be destroying China by giving them our jobs.

I just met with a business owner yesterday who told me he needs more people but can't afford to hire more. Not just because of their salary, but because of future uncertainty due to a massive regulation they will be forced to pay for called 0bamacare.
 

MenInTights

not a plastic bag
It may not be possible today, but we can't be far away from having the technology to quickly retool a factory so that the robots running the assembly lines are cranking out 10,000 new iPhones/day in America.

The idea that it can't be done makes me think of the shoe industry. Many years ago China decided they wanted the shoe manufacturing all to themselves so they started producing shoes below cost so that all of the manufactures would move over there. New Balance however makes shoes in the States and does a damn good job with it for about what a comparable pair of Nike's costs. They don't have the extra cash to hire the LeBron James and Tiger Woods, but I'd much rather buy an American shoe than buy what LeBron is wearing.

It also makes me think of the CEO of Intel. Paul Otellini said it is impossible to open a semiconductor plant in America. Intel CEO Blasts Obama Administration, Says Anti-Business Policies Are Killing The Country
As a result, he said, "every business in America has a list of more variables than I've ever seen in my career." If variables like capital gains taxes and the R&D tax credit are resolved correctly, jobs will stay here, but if politicians make decisions "the wrong way, people will not invest in the United States. They'll invest elsewhere."
Take factories. "I can tell you definitively that it costs $1 billion more per factory for me to build, equip, and operate a semiconductor manufacturing facility in the United States," Otellini said.
The rub: Ninety percent of that additional cost of a $4 billion factory is not labor but the cost to comply with taxes and regulations that other nations don't impose.
I believe we can get a lot of these jobs back, but it can only be done with less regulations and lower taxes.
 

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
There is no way we can compete with China's cheat labor and sweat shops. There is no way you can live on $1.00 or $2.00 an hour in the US. Maybe we should put tariffs on goods that come from countries like China so it won't do any good to move their business over there. They really don't buy that much of our stuff anyway.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company's dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day. "The speed and flexibility is breathtaking," the (Apple) executive said. "There's no American plant that can match that."
I guess not, we have laws against slavery and inhumane treatment of workers. As more Chinese start making more money they are going to have a problem with this too.

Another choice quote from an Apple exec: "We don't have an obligation to solve America's problems. Our only obligation is making the best product possible." This is the very definition of the sociopath corporation.
That's true they don't have an obligation to the US just like we don't have an obligation to them. Maybe if they think China's ways are so great tell them to apply for Chinese citizenship and pack up the kids and move there.
 
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