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Should All Minumum WagesBe Affected?

sunrise

aka ginger warlock
V.I.P.
By the way, I have NO idea what you're getting at with this statement "it has been proven time and again that large business crush small ones and it has nothing to do with wage costs so really, that is kind of a none logic statement." First, who said that it does, and secondly, so??
Well it kinda does. The main reason people seemed to be against hike of the minimum wage is small businesses if the original article is anything to go by and to be fair that is kind of a point. If a smaller outfit was forced to fall in line with a minimum wage but does not make the same amount so may not be able to make the payments it may indeed cause problems.

What I am saying however is that the biggest problem for small business is not changes to pay, pensions, the economy etc but big business where people choose to go to the likes of Walmart rather than the small family owned business, this is how it has been for the last twenty years. So yeah.
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Just because a company can afford to pay their employees more doesn't mean that they should be required to. On the subject of Wal-Mart, nobody is forcing anyone to work at Wal-Mart, if they're so awful then go find a new job instead of crying that your wage is too low. Wal-Mart pays an insane amount in taxes so don't think for one second that it's "we the taxpayers" that are subsidizing the Wal-Mart employees anyway.
Is that really what you believe Dave? That if you feel your wage is too low you should just up and quit your job to find another one instead of a business, oh I don't know, look after their employees?

I make less than what a Wal-Mart employee makes per hour because that's what my job is worth. Other people (let's say a Rocket Scientist) make well into the six figures because that's what their job is worth. In the same way, Wal-Mart employees earn the wage that they do because that's what their job is worth. If you have a low skill cap on your job then you're going to be paid accordingly.
Okay, lets go with that a second, I do not know what an NFL player makes but I know that people who play Football in the premier league make a lot of money a week (I don't know how much but a lot) in comparison to say a doctor, a fireman or a nurse, is that right? The importance of a job does not reflect pay scales all of the time as far as I can tell if at all.

On a side note. You're also negating the importance of a college education to a certain degree when you support raising minimum wage.
I disagree, a college education should not factor minimum wage in any way.
 
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Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
Putting more money in the pockets of these rich CEO and multi million dollar corporations is not going to help the economy. All they will do is save it when a person working for minimum wage will spend it thus giving the economy a boost. If they are making more they will rely less on things such as food stamps.

This will not have any bearing on the value of a college education.
 

dDave

Well-Known Member
V.I.P.
Okay, lets go with that a second, I do not know what an NFL player makes but I know that people who play Football in the premier league make a lot of money a week (I don't know how much but a lot) in comparison to say a doctor, a fireman or a nurse, is that right? The importance of a job does not reflect pay scales all of the time as far as I can tell if at all.
To be fair, I never used the term "importance" I was only stating what it's worth (which pertains to value, not necessarily importance to society). NBA, NFL, etc. those players are payed so much money because tons of people are willing to turn up to games to come and see these people play, that makes them worth a lot. Lebron James is paid millions and millions of dollars every year to play basketball, yet the Miami Heat still make a lot of profit because so many people are willing to pay for tickets to their games. It's all business.

I disagree, a college education should not factor minimum wage in any way.
Isn't the main purpose of a college education to get skills that will in turn help one earn a better wage? The more you put minimum wage up the less incentive one has to go to college. I think this is a pretty simple relationship.
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
On the subject of Wal-Mart, nobody is forcing anyone to work at Wal-Mart, if they're so awful then go find a new job instead of crying that your wage is too low.
I really, really hate this mentality. Jobs are not just sitting out on the curb and this silly idea of "Deal with it or leave" is a mindset that Americans need to lose and lose fast. People working at Wal-Mart are not working there because it's comfortable. They treat It's easy to be higher up on the mountain and mock the hikers below, you know? People working at Wal-Mart have not found opportunities elsewhere. Wal-Mart treats their employees like shit, it's why they get sued so often. Trust me, I've actually seen it. They're so big that they honestly do not flinch when they get threatened even if it's clear they MAY lose.

Wal-Mart holds a grip on a lot of areas in the US where they hold most of the jobs in an area and most of the economy. I would think you need to expect some degree of responsibility when you are as large as Wal-Mart, but that's just my opinion. I mean, if Wal-Mart just vanished, our economy might actually crash in a day or two.

Wal-Mart pays an insane amount in taxes so don't think for one second that it's "we the taxpayers" that are subsidizing the Wal-Mart employees anyway.
They actually had their tax rate dropped recently, FYI. Their employees do cost the federal government a LOT of money because Wal-Mart does not pay a liveable wage. It may not be their requirement to ensure their employees' financial strength, but as someone who has worked for that shithole, I can tell you that they do not give hours and when they do, people fight each other for them.
 

Van

Heavy Weapons Guy
V.I.P.
A. Federal minimum wage is unconstitutional. If you disagree show me where it is allowed in the constitution. But to move along with the discussion...

B. Why should the government regulate winners and losers? Should we remove incentive for people to be successful?

C. Only about 3.5 million people work at the federal minimum wage anyway and a large amount of these are teenagers working their first job. Who makes minimum wage? | Pew Research Center

D. Raising the minimum wage hurts the economy and in fact actually hurts those it tries to help.

E. Most of us worked a minimum wage job. Do it and find a better job.

F. With government subsidies, the minimum wage has not stagnated at all.

When the government tries to help by redistributing wealth it does not work. Look at the home ownership rate. Has the government assistance helped that in the past 30 years? No, it is the same pretty much. But the solution to this? More redistribution of wealth. Insanity. Man up. Work hard. And you will be fine.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Putting more money in the pockets of these rich CEO and multi million dollar corporations is not going to help the economy. All they will do is save it when a person working for minimum wage will spend it thus giving the economy a boost. If they are making more they will rely less on things such as food stamps.

This will not have any bearing on the value of a college education.
Who's putting more money into their pockets? Who's taking this money by force and giving it to CEO's?

And that's incorrect. The dollar being devalued is exactly why the value of an education isn't what it used to be. We pass policies that increase the cost of goods then wonder why college educated people can't afford anything.
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I really, really hate this mentality. Jobs are not just sitting out on the curb and this silly idea of "Deal with it or leave" is a mindset that Americans need to lose and lose fast. People working at Wal-Mart are not working there because it's comfortable. They treat It's easy to be higher up on the mountain and mock the hikers below, you know? People working at Wal-Mart have not found opportunities elsewhere. Wal-Mart treats their employees like shit, it's why they get sued so often. Trust me, I've actually seen it. They're so big that they honestly do not flinch when they get threatened even if it's clear they MAY lose.

Wal-Mart holds a grip on a lot of areas in the US where they hold most of the jobs in an area and most of the economy. I would think you need to expect some degree of responsibility when you are as large as Wal-Mart, but that's just my opinion. I mean, if Wal-Mart just vanished, our economy might actually crash in a day or two.



They actually had their tax rate dropped recently, FYI. Their employees do cost the federal government a LOT of money because Wal-Mart does not pay a liveable wage. It may not be their requirement to ensure their employees' financial strength, but as someone who has worked for that shithole, I can tell you that they do not give hours and when they do, people fight each other for them.
Why? I hated my job at Pizza Hut but I used it to acquire an education. What's wrong with "if you don't like it there use that job to acquire an education or skill that puts you in a different labor supply"? I thought that was the whole idea behind encouraging kids to go to school?
 
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CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Fist off what's a living wage? Is there a number associated with a living wage? Secondly, it's conclusion is in a vacuum, as if everything else stays the same. What if every fast food joint paid that "living wage" (I hate that term because it makes no sense. My grandfather used to live on $12/week, but I digress) wouldn't those prices go up even more? Doesn't Wal Mart sell competitive goods? In other words if McDonalds raised their wages and the price for a Big Mac went up, wouldn't the demand for food at Wal Mart go up because people will want to stay in and cook more? Wouldn't that increased demand affect those prices? My point is how much those prices would go up isn't only dependent on Wal Mart paying a "living wage". And if those prices go up, that "living wage" isn't livable anymore. One can't live on $12/week.

EDIT: It should also be noted, the assumption that Wal-Mart's pay is why people are on food stamps is flawed logic. Wal-Mart isn't responsible for people's individual decisions, the overall market, the cost of rent, the cost of transportation....the video assumes Wal-Mart controls everything, which is nonsense.

EDIT2: What this video fails to ignore as well is the overall effect that will have on the market. If Wal Mart increases it's wages as it says, wouldn't that cause everyone else that employs people in that labor supply to do so as well? Wouldn't not just Target but also restaurants that employ cooks, offices that employ receptionists, banks that employ part time tellers, everybody that employs people in that same labor supply have to do so as well to stay competitive? Wouldn't that increased wage cost across the board cause prices to change across the board as well? This video is an extremely simplistic view and has no economic education or even reliable theory behind it.
 
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Van

Heavy Weapons Guy
V.I.P.
I've seen that video. In my opinion it is nothing more than liberal propaganda being shared on places like Facebook by people who also have very limited understandings of how business works.

Ceteris peribus, I still don't believe the math. Of course we know that everything else will not remain the same. So many factors not even mentioned. Taxes, overhead, benefits, unemployment taxes, employees who are actually worth more suddenly get screwed so those would have to have a impact on prices as well because the market would force those people to also get a raise. Not to mention the impact it would have on other businesses this causing even more inflation elsewhere.

People make minimum wage because the market has deemed that they are not worth more than that for their work. This is why, as I pointed out earlier, people need to man up, work harder, and get better jobs.

Google this on PEW. 50% are young people, 64% are part time (thank you ACA?). The percentage of people actually trying to raise their family on minimum wage is less than 1%.

You can get by on minimum wage. You can survive on ~1250 per month. Do you get luxuries? No. Is it going to be easy? No. It's going to suck. You can survive, but you certainly won't thrive. So work hard and get a better job or move up. Entry level jobs don't and shouldn't pay large sums of money. It's entry level, you're not supposed to stay there. If someone has no motivation and no responsibility that is not society's fault.

BTW I payed cash through college working my ass off in fast food. And it sucked.

Choices have results, good or bad. Make choices within your budget. This is a national problem by the way of people buying crap they can't afford because they are too lazy to do basic math. This goes from individuals all the way to the federal government. It's a disease and we all need to grow up, and take responsibility.

Did I mean to sound like a hard ass on this? Yes.
 

ILuvChuzzles31

Registered Member
I hate to be the one asking a dumb question but I am just for curiousity if nothing more..
Is WalMart the only place that people can shop? What about other food stores, clothing, harware.. this seems so strange to me that when this type of subject comes up any forum I'm on Wal Mart is at the center of the topic like there is no where else to go.

If Walmart and McDonalds always comes up to be the top runner franchises that will be used
consider either way just how many of each them are to how many employess they both need to hire.
 
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