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Should All Minumum WagesBe Affected?

ILuvChuzzles31

Registered Member
In light of what happened with the GOP and Senate I believe they are on the right path IMO.
It's not fair that small business owners should try to have to keep up with what I call the "big dogs in the pound".. Do you believe that the minumum wage should be raised for all kinds of businesses based on this article?

Minimum Wage Bill Halted in the Senate - NBC News
 
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Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
What bothers me is how the respective political parties are handling it.

On a general scale, the right wing is treating it like an affront to the market with some lunatics even suggesting a removal of minimum wage in an economy where people are spending less and do not have nearly as much disposable income as they had in past decades. They seem more interested in scaring the average American with images of a 14-year old fry cook earning 15 per hour rather than giving solid reasons as to why minimum wage should not go up despite being the most stagnant it has been in decades while the top 10% earns more than ever recorded.

Then, once again on a general scale, you have the left who paint the working class as a raped, beaten and broken down people who get screwed at every corner. The extremists on their side scare their voters with shadowy, evil, and greedy business owners who would quicker throw their employees into meat grinders than give them two minutes paid time off.

The problem for me is that underneath each parties' respective hyperbole, both has some truth to be shared. Minimum wage has stagnated, costs of living have gone up, and small businesses are struggling. There needs to be some give and take here. Our wealthiest are earning more than they ever have, which is not a problem, but it creates an imbalance in the economy when the common man doesn't get any of that "trickle-down".
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
No, minimum wage should not be raised. Minimum wage is an inflationary policy. It will drive up labor costs which will in turn drive up prices. Increased prices for goods and services means those who don't make minimum wage don't have as much spending power. To put it another way, the dollar is devalued, it doesn't stretch as much as it used to.

There is an increasing gap of wealth in this country to some extent, at the same time however more wealth has been created in the US in the last 30 years or so than in any other time in our history. There are ways we can make the market more profitable for people, there are ways we can decrease the labor supply, thus increasing wages, without devaluing the dollar. It isn't as easy as waving a magic wand and increasing the minimum wage as the President thinks. What he has proposed for federal contacts shows the difference between a political decision and an economic decision, and they very rarely go hand in hand. It's sounds great and make people think he cares about the poor, so a great political decision, at the same time it devalues the dollar, thus a piss poor economic decision.
 

sunrise

aka ginger warlock
V.I.P.
I cannot speak for America as I am not in America however I would like to discuss this from the point of view of at least a pay scale.

In the UK at the moment the minumum wage is £5.03 pence, this is for people between the age of 18 & 20, this works out to be just about $8.50 cents so you are better off in the UK. If however you are under 18 the basic minimum wage is £3.72 pence which works out at $6.72 cents. Now I am unsure if the US has multi different wage rates, all of what I can be posted can be found here: Wages in the UK

Now what I am going to say next is not a very positive thing or indeed a nice thing but in a way it is quite fair because I have seen it happen, it is real. I have seen mothers with children who do not work, not because they can't but because they do not want to. Why you might ask? Well here is the deal and it may be the same in the US. Mothers with children get a certain amount of benefits and the fathers may go out to work, this will not change in some cases because I have heard people say "we are better off out of work because of the benefits we get", this is not a sweeping statement, this is not a fictitious statement, I have heard it said even now.

As a result of this it is not as simple to say that a minimum wage is the same for everyone, it is not and it never will be, yes the pay is but the circumstance is not.

I do think that this bill is a good thing, I think people should be paid that little bit more to be able to have a better standard of living. This is less than three dollars per hour, what could that achieve? It may help single mums work an hour longer because she can afford to have a nanny for longer. It could help people who are sick get better because they can afford decent medical care.

I don't assume to understand everything that is going on in the US right now but it seems that if a small amount of money needs to come out of the hand that feeds it is almost refused point blank. Medical care is the big one, why not have it? Why not pay a little more and have a decent health service for all? Why not increase minimum wage so that people can afford to live in a way that can help them? People argue that this will hurt small businesses, yes, it probably will, but you know what else hurts them? Chain stores, Wallmart, McDonalds, KFC. All three hurt the small business owner but no-one seems to mind that and THAT is a bigger problem.
 

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
Yes I think places like Wal-Marts do hurt the small business owner more than the minimum wage does. I think there should be a higher minimum wage for places like Wal-Marts and let the little guy get by with paying less. People that work at places like Wal-Mart should not need food stamps.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
So Wal-Mart should pay it's workers more than what some other firms pay for the exact same kind of work? My first question is how does that make sense? My second is under what authority does any legislative body, state or federal, have to enact such legislation?

Whether people should or shouldn't be on food stamps has absolutely nothing to do with Wal-Mart. Where's the causal connection?
 

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
Yes they should, any business that takes in more than 200 thousand a year should have to pay a higher minimum wage.

I'm assuming the government can do that like they cut peoples medicare benefits, vote themselves a raise or anything else they decide to do.

I don't think tax payers should have to subsidize Wal-Marts employees by giving them food stamps so the CEO can get a little richer.
 

sunrise

aka ginger warlock
V.I.P.
Why is that such a ridiculous idea CO? If these large companies can afford to help people out a little bit more by increasing their minimum wage why not? To answer your question which I think I did address in a previous post is that by doing so it may make things better;

A single mother works on a fair and good minimum wage, she is then in a position where child care can be paid for and so can health care, she can afford doctors bills etc and she is not worried as much about where he next cheque is coming from and if she can afford her car this month - does that not sound like a good thing to you? Would you accept it if it was offered to you?

As for the connection which I think is less than casual for all the reasons I mentioned small business do not live and die by wage alterations that this article would have you believe, they live and die on business, it has been proven time and again that large business crush small ones and it has nothing to do with wage costs so really, that is kind of a none logic statement.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Yes they should, any business that takes in more than 200 thousand a year should have to pay a higher minimum wage.

I'm assuming the government can do that like they cut peoples medicare benefits, vote themselves a raise or anything else they decide to do.

I don't think tax payers should have to subsidize Wal-Marts employees by giving them food stamps so the CEO can get a little richer.
What??? So they should be forced to pay more because of how much they make?? If I develop a business model that makes me more successful as a lawyer, if I develop a firm and a business model that makes me more competitive in the market I should be FORCED to pay more for a secretary than the guy down the street? I'm sorry, that's the most nonsensical thing I have ever heard.

Taxpayers aren't subsidizing anyone because of CEO's, taxpayers are subsidizing people because we idiotically keep devaluing the dollar. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much a CEO makes. If I've said this once I've said it a million times, capitalism isn't a zero-sum game, until we finally learn that we're never going to get anywhere.
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Why is that such a ridiculous idea CO? If these large companies can afford to help people out a little bit more by increasing their minimum wage why not? To answer your question which I think I did address in a previous post is that by doing so it may make things better;

A single mother works on a fair and good minimum wage, she is then in a position where child care can be paid for and so can health care, she can afford doctors bills etc and she is not worried as much about where he next cheque is coming from and if she can afford her car this month - does that not sound like a good thing to you? Would you accept it if it was offered to you?

As for the connection which I think is less than casual for all the reasons I mentioned small business do not live and die by wage alterations that this article would have you believe, they live and die on business, it has been proven time and again that large business crush small ones and it has nothing to do with wage costs so really, that is kind of a none logic statement.
Because the market isn't intended to help out those who don't do as well. Apple can't pay more for their employees because Dell isn't successful. That's why it's ridiculous.

By the way, I have NO idea what you're getting at with this statement "it has been proven time and again that large business crush small ones and it has nothing to do with wage costs so really, that is kind of a none logic statement." First, who said that it does, and secondly, so??
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I would like to see the authority any legislative body has to enact legislation that forces businesses to pay more for wages than other businesses. If one would just look at that situation logically it makes no sense. Why would I go work for a mom and pop or small business at $7/hour if I can do the exact same job at Wal-Mart for $12? Wouldn't THAT hurt small businesses, even IF Congress could enact such legislation?
 
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dDave

Well-Known Member
V.I.P.
Just because a company can afford to pay their employees more doesn't mean that they should be required to. On the subject of Wal-Mart, nobody is forcing anyone to work at Wal-Mart, if they're so awful then go find a new job instead of crying that your wage is too low. Wal-Mart pays an insane amount in taxes so don't think for one second that it's "we the taxpayers" that are subsidizing the Wal-Mart employees anyway.

I make less than what a Wal-Mart employee makes per hour because that's what my job is worth. Other people (let's say a Rocket Scientist) make well into the six figures because that's what their job is worth. In the same way, Wal-Mart employees earn the wage that they do because that's what their job is worth. If you have a low skill cap on your job then you're going to be paid accordingly.

On a side note. You're also negating the importance of a college education to a certain degree when you support raising minimum wage.

Bottom line though. Raising minimum wage causes the cost of labor to go up and thus the cost of goods and services goes up. Very simple relationship there.

It's not about the dollar amount, it's the value of the dollar that's important. Think about that.
 
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