ROE-vs-WADE-vs-Humanity.

Discussion in 'Politics & Law' started by doniston, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. doniston

    doniston Guest

    YEP, it's another post about abortion, but I am so sick of hearing the same arguements, and the same answers that I decided to put a different tack on the question.

    to the folks at Fusion : This is my first attempt at posting a new thread (except my introduction) on this forum. and since I usually take offers literally, I will start with this. Now I am not privy to your ways yet, the form I put this in will likely seem unique (at the very least), but please bear with me.

    TO WIT; This is a post, or rather a type of poll which asks a series of questions in three different areas. I will list each area separately and then (because in the past I did this, and I was told I ws being unfair and setting a trap by not stating my own positions first) in my next following post I will cite my position on each question or series. Please note that I am not addressing other issues like saving the life of the mother, or rape or incess, or similar connected issues. But I am truing to be comprehensive.

    Further, I will be posting this on two different Forums for a comparision of the two.

    FIRST SERIES--- DO YOU CONSIDER ABORTION A CRIME, OR MURDER, OR??? (and at what stage??)

    a. Do you support or reject the use of artificial birhcontrol, including "The pill", /RU 486/ the morning after pil, or even condoms.and why.

    b. Do you consider abortion Murder? and at what stage? including "Always"-- artificial birth control methods, or during the first, second, or third trimesters, and including partial birth abortions

    SECOND SERIES while I don't beleive anyone "FAVORS" abortion. at what stage do you fel that aborion is permissible depending upon all the circumataes involved?

    Never,--- First, second, or third trimester, --- partial birth abotion, always.

    THIRD SERIES: What rights do the Mothe(sic), father(sic),and
    Zygote/embryo/fetus/unborn baby, have, and at what time. during the process???

    Thank you (in advance) for your attention.
     

  2. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    EDIT: Okay, I seriously thought there was a more active abortion thread, but I guess not. This will be moved to Mature Discussion.
     
  3. doniston

    doniston Guest

    here are my answers to my questions
    FIRST SERIES--- DO YOU CONSIDER ABORTION A CRIME, OR MURDER, OR??? (and at what stage??
    a. Do you support or reject the use of artificial birhcontrol, including "The pill", /RU 486/ the morning after pil, or even condoms.and why.
    I support all of these provided thay have been proven safe

    b. Do you consider abortion Murder? and at what stage? including "Always"-- artificial birth control methods, or during the first, second, or third trimesters, and including partial birth abortions

    I consider abortion appropriate under normal circumstance during the first trimester, and in extreme circumstances during the second. I do not beleive third trimester abortion and especially Partial birth abortion are ever appropriate, and borders on murder.since there is another tried and true method which is less stressful on the mother, and allows the fetus to have a chance at survival. It is Called Ceasarian section.


    SECOND SERIES while I don't beleive anyone "FAVORS" abortion. at what stage do you fel that aborion is permissible depending upon all the circumstances involved?

    Never,--- First, second, or third trimester, --- partial birth abortion, always.
    see last answer.

    THIRD SERIES: What rights do the Mother(sic), father(sic),and
    Zygote/embryo/fetus/unborn baby, have, and at what time. during the process???

    This question is rather complicated especially with regards to mother and father, which I will get into on future posts, as necessary. sufice to say,they "BOTH"have rights, but as for the unborn at whatever stage, while it is simple a clumps of cells. IT HAS NO RIGHTS.

    Thankyou for your attention
     
  4. IntheNet

    IntheNet Guest

    FIRST SERIES--- DO YOU CONSIDER ABORTION A CRIME, OR MURDER, OR??? (and at what stage??)

    I consider it premeditated murder; infanticide if you wish to get technical.

    a. Do you support or reject the use of artificial birhcontrol, including "The pill", /RU 486/ the morning after pil, or even condoms.and why.

    Reject it. All birth control frustrates God's plan and is therefore forbidden.

    b. Do you consider abortion Murder? and at what stage? including "Always"-- artificial birth control methods, or during the first, second, or third trimesters, and including partial birth abortions

    Yes. Answered previously.

    SECOND SERIES while I don't beleive anyone "FAVORS" abortion. at what stage do you fel that aborion is permissible depending upon all the circumataes involved?

    Lot's of broads FAVOR abortion; NARAL defends it with passion. Abortion (murder) however should never be permissible or permitted.

    THIRD SERIES: What rights do the Mothe(sic), father(sic),and
    Zygote/embryo/fetus/unborn baby, have, and at what time. during the process???

    Abortion involves four (4) principle players or stakeholders: The fetus, the mother, the father, and God. Currently only one of those stakeholders is legally allowed to terminate the other; i.e., abortion. All should have a say in it. Insofar as decision-making capability, the mother and father should have equal rights, subject to legally-binding rules. God's rule should also be binding.
     
  5. Izzibeth

    Izzibeth Guest

    i know i should steer clear but i just can't help myself.



    FIRST SERIES--- DO YOU CONSIDER ABORTION A CRIME, OR MURDER, OR??? (and at what stage??)

    a. Do you support or reject the use of artificial birhcontrol, including "The pill", /RU 486/ the morning after pil, or even condoms.and why.


    i fully support all forms of birth control mentioned above. i encourage it wholly. if one does not want to become pregnant (there are many reasons why one would not want to become pregnant.. not just freedom of promiscuity *gasp*) and the resource is there then they should be able to use it.

    b. Do you consider abortion Murder? and at what stage? including "Always"-- artificial birth control methods, or during the first, second, or third trimesters, and including partial birth abortions

    i do not consider abortion murder until the third trimester. i fully support all first trimester abortions and i support second trimester abortions if it is deemed necessary for the health of the mother. i believe partial birth abortion is murder (unless for the safety/health of the mother) and should be avoided completely. first trimester is nearly four months of pregnancy.. one should have been able to find out about, think about critically, and come to a decision as to whether or not they are going to continue the pregnancy to term well before the first trimester has ended.

    SECOND SERIES while I don't beleive anyone "FAVORS" abortion. at what stage do you fel that aborion is permissible depending upon all the circumataes involved?

    Never,--- First, second, or third trimester, --- partial birth abotion, always.


    as i said, i think first is permissible always. second should be only if the health of the mother is in question and third as well. partial birth falls into the same category as second and third (i think many people get this wrong... partial birth abortion is not when the mother waits until she is having the child and the doctor aborts it... partial birth simply means that the fetus is 'partially removed', the procedure done, and then the child is removed completely.... generally "partial birth abortion" does not mean that a woman has carried the fetus to term and while it is being born, it is killed.)

    THIRD SERIES: What rights do the Mothe(sic), father(sic),and
    Zygote/embryo/fetus/unborn baby, have, and at what time. during the process???


    i believe the zygote has no rights until the brain and heart have developed and are functioning at the lower levels. this happens at approximately early-mid-second trimester. when this happens, i believe that the child has a right to life as long as that right does not infringe upon the life (as in health and safety) of the mother. until this point, the mother has every right to decide whether or not to carry the pregnancy through to term. the father, unfortunately, has no rights when it comes to choosing abortion or a full-term pregnancy as one can not force a woman to carry a child that she does not want to carry and one can not force a woman NOT to carry a child that she does want to carry. sorry, gents. however, i believe in protections for a male who wishes not to be a part of a pregnancy and subsequently the resulting childs life should he say VERY EARLY ON.. that he does not want to. but that's a whole other thread.
     
  6. Kazmarov

    Kazmarov For a Free Scotland

    I support all manners of birth control, though the morning after pill should be used if more traditional methods of birth control fail. The female has a right to alter her hormones how she sees fit.

    The first trimester and the second trimester. The female should do it as soon as possible, but should have due time to mull the various factors of abortion vs. children, and later on if there are health problems that would make childbirth dangerous to the female. I do not support partial birth abortion, as I feel that there is a high chance that the nervous system of the fetus has developed enough that it could feel the pain.

    First and second trimester, though the earlier the better. Later abortions should be for health reasons, while earlier ones should be for various other reasons.

    Never,--- First, second, or third trimester, --- partial birth abotion, always.

    The unborn zygote/embryo is a small clump of largely undeveloped cells, not much farther along than primitive animals, and lacks anything that could be considered a nervous system or specialized organs. The mother has absolute right over her body, and what lies within. At the point of partial birth abortion, I would consider the fetus to be developed enough to be considered something approaching a human, and thus would have a right to life, thus the reason I do not support it.
     
  7. Mecha

    Mecha Guest

    I whole heartedly endorse the use of contraception, it produces a world of good. The economic (holding off the expenses of childbearing until it can be properly dealt with, or not at all), social (sex without reproduction, family planning), biological (STDs) and dramatically lowers the need for abortions. If anti-abortionists cared about the murder of what they want to call "people", they would stop banning the use of sexual education and contraceptives.

    No. Murder is reserved for people. I believe the legal line for murder should be drawn at 1 month after birth, so if there is a problem it may be terminated. I am disgusted at the idea of infanticide, but the decision of whether or not potential human life should be or not be needs to be made sacrosanct, until all the social issues surrounding pregnancy are resolved.

    First trimester, unless it was rape/incest ect then anytime. However, I believe it must be as legal as possible for as long as possible, until all the social problems are solved that can be related to pregnancy.

    Father: No rights until 1 day after birth. If the mother decides against the child between day 1 and end of 1 month, the father may intercede and take the child, however with no child support from the mother.

    After 1 month of birth, the child has a right to life, in my book.

    ~Mecha
     
  8. Tatertot

    Tatertot Guest

    You don't believe that a newborn baby is actually a person? What do you mean that the decision of whether or not potential human life should be or not needs to be made sacrosanct? Who makes this decision?
     
  9. Mecha

    Mecha Guest

    No. Tabula Rasa. No person has developed. No person of value develops for years.

    Legal methods have been employed by anti-abortionists that interfere with obtaining abortions in ways determintal to the living. For example, forced notification, which has the purpose of trying to get the spouse or parents to stop it from occuring by giving them time to try.

    The mother.

    ~Mecha
     
  10. SenatorB

    SenatorB J.S.P.S

    I support the use of all of the abovementioned forms of birth control. If a couple does not want to have a child, this should not mean that they are not able to ever have sex, and birth control is the only way that sex without chance (or at least with very minimal chance) of a baby is accomplished. Additionally, in some situations, it may not have been a woman's choice to even have sex, so they should not be forced to have a child when it is not even because of something they chose that they were put in that situation.

    I believe partial birth abortions to be undeniably murder, and therefore unacceptable. I think third trimester abortions are murder also, but in some cases may still be acceptable (will describe in later section).

    I think that abortion is permissible in first trimester without question, second trimester if there is some significant reason, and third trimester only in the case of danger to the mother's life. Partial birth abortions should not be allowed. In the first trimester, it is essentially just a lump of living tissue, and not actually anything human, so I don't see anything wrong with that. Second trimester things have started to form more, and therefore there should have to be a valid reason for why an abortion should take place... especially since any trivial reason should have been taken care of earlier, it's not as though there isn't enough time to figure it out in first trimester. Third trimester and partial birth abortions are wrong in my mind because the fetus is practically a real person at that point, so having an abortion would be murder... however, I'll allow third trimester in the event that not having the abortion would kill the mother, as that would also be murder, and between the two I'd rather see the not yet fully living thing die.

    I think the mother has the ultimate say in what should happen, throughout the process. The parents should talk it over and come to an agreement about whether or not they will get an abortion, but in the event that such an agreement cannot be reached (just can't agree, dont know who the father is, etc.) the mother get's the final say as it is her body.
     

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