right or a privilege?

ExpectantlyIronic

e̳̳̺͕ͬ̓̑̂ͮͦͣ͒͒h̙ͦ̔͂?̅̂ ̾͗̑
#21
Locke defended the idea of property as a natural right, on the grounds that a man who had property had worked to produce said property, or traded fairly for it. Nobody made the land on which we live, though, or the resources which we use to build material goods from. Thus, if we use the rational of Locke and Paine, we can only claim dominion over the value we add to natural resources through our labor, whereas the resources themselves are the property of all men.

On such grounds we can justify property taxes, given that owning property is to borrow from everyone something that rightfully belongs to them. Since we can justify taxes on such grounds, we can also justify calling the things they are used for 'rights' (using the logic of Spence), since providing them does not then infringe on the rights of others.

Honestly, though, I think the idea of natural rights is absolutely absurd, on the grounds that we cannot deductively infer what ought to be from only a knowledge of what is (that is to say that our subjective passions are necessarily a factor in such determinations), and thus there is simply no way to objectively determine what ought to be our right. I think the ethical philosophy of the utilitarians was an improvement over that of Locke, really, even as I think Hume ultimately got it right.
 
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Mirage

Administrator
Staff member
V.I.P.
#23
Well I look at it this way. Elementary and High School teach you enough to prepare you for a real job. A job at a restaurant or in customer service perhaps, but a job.

You can use said job to pay for additional schooling. I don't think college should be free.
 

PretzelCorps

Registered Member
#24
Let's get something straight here --> The fact that you have any rights is a privilege; the very notion of "right" is an idea that mankind created, long ago.



- To own land: Were it not for things like communication/language, economics, agreements, politics, etc., the only right you would have to a parcel of land, would be based on the weapons and violence with which you would defend it from outsiders.

A wolf or a bear does not have any "right" to property; they claim it. This is the same for humans.

Privilege


- Driving: If vehicles weren't invented by someone else long ago, this wouldn't even be a question, anyways.

Privilege


- College Education: Much like driving, if other people weren't offering this service, there would be no such thing.

Privilege


- Healthcare: Had no one taken the time to learn about our bodies and their functions, and passed this knowledge unto others, along with the philosophy of the healer, there would be no such thing as healthcare.

Before medicine became established, every man fended for him/herself.

Very much so, a:
Privilege


- Owning a gun: See driving. (One could argue that you DO have the right to whatever weapons you are able to make yourself, of course.)

Privilege


- Access to the internet: See driving.

Privilege


- Having a child: Probably the closest thing to a "right" in this list. Everyone has the ability to create a child, so I guess everyone is born with the natural right to do so.

Right and Privilege


- Having a pet: Though it could be considered a natural right to befriend other creatures/people, had no one learned how to domesticate animals, this notion of "pethood" would probably never had come into existence.

Privilege
 
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Steerpike

Registered Member
#25
That is if "owning a property" is "the fruit of your labor". Perhaps some see the fruit as not "owning" per se, but rather "the privilege of owning a property". After all, if owning a property were truly a right, then you don't have to work for it to have it.
Irrelevant appeal(s). Property doesn't just mean land. The food one eats is property, the clothes one wears is property, the bed one sleeps on is property.

Case in point, intellectual property: If J.K. Rowling wanted an eighth book in her Harry Potter series, then she would have to write it. She could not rightly expect that it would either write itself or that someone else would write it for her. If she wrote such a book, then it would be her intellectual property by right of being the fruit of her labor.

Property ownership - right. Property was changed out of the Declaration of Independence b/c the South would claim a right to own slaves. But property rights are a founding principal of this Nation.
You show some understanding. However, the right to liberty is all that needed to be properly respected to eliminate slavery.
 
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ysabel

/ˈɪzəˌbɛl/ pink 5
#26
Irrelevant appeal(s). Property doesn't just mean land. The food one eats is property, the clothes one wears is property, the bed one sleeps on is property.
Irrelevant response. I've never equated (or even mentioned) land with property in any of my posts.
 
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Steerpike

Registered Member
#27
Irrelevant response. I've never equated (or even mentioned) land with property in any of my posts.
Red herring. I didn't say you did. You didn't respond to the issue of intellectual property. It is clear that intellectual property can only come into being by someone working to make it happen. Is intellectual property a right or a privilege of the one who creates it?
 

ysabel

/ˈɪzəˌbɛl/ pink 5
#28
Red herring. I didn't say you did. You didn't respond to the issue of intellectual property. It is clear that intellectual property can only come into being by someone working to make it happen. Is intellectual property a right or a privilege of the one who creates it?
Then there was no purpose of clarifying that property doesn't mean land, after stating your opinion about the quote.

Regarding intellectual property, while some consider it as a right, I agree with those who say it's a monopoly privilege.
 

ysabel

/ˈɪzəˌbɛl/ pink 5
#30
Based on how they were used historically (with copyrights, patents, etc. are just government-granted privileges used for monopoly purposes --- so that no one else can use a commodity freely, or to make such commodity scarce thereby increasing the power of those who have it over others who don't), or presently, like how they're used by pharmaceutical companies to justify their monopoly on drugs and to prevent others companies from providing people with way more affordable drugs of the same ingredients. Then there's also Microsoft.......
 
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