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Republicans Changed The Rules

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
In its effort to extract concessions from Democrats in exchange for opening the government, the GOP has faced a fundamental strategic obstacle: They don't have the votes. A majority of the members of the House have gone on record saying that if they were given the opportunity to vote, they would support what's known as a "clean" continuing resolution to fund the government.
So House Republican leaders made sure no such vote could happen.


House Republicans Changed The Rules So A Majority Vote Couldn't Stop The Government Shutdown
So the day before the shutdown republicans passed a House Resolution that says only the House majority leader can bring a bill to the floor for a vote like the clean resolution bill that would probably pass if it were voted on. Now I ask myself why would they do this and the only answer I can come up with is they want this shutdown to go on as long as possible maybe even to the point of default.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
That's an interesting argument put forward by the Huffington Post because when I read the Constitution I see in Article I section 7 "All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills". I also see in Article I sec. 8 Congress has the power "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution and foregoing Powers...".

It seems to me what this author, and Obama, have forgotten from basic high school civics is that the Constitution set up a system of checks and balances PURPOSEFULLY. What they also seem to forget is we are representative republic, which means if I am a member of the House from a certain district in Texas, I represent THOSE constituents and THOSE constituents only. I don't represent the president, I don't represent the whole US, and I don't represent Joe Schmo from Minnesota. And if MY constituents don't want a bill funded I will vote to not fund it. It happens ALL the time. It's part of our checks and balances and has been in existence since 1789. Since that time Acts passed by Congress have been defunded, repealed, and the Supreme Court has ruled Acts passed by Congress and signed by the President as unconstitutional. It happens, this shouldn't come as a shock to anyone, but the only other president who acted like a child and threw a fit like a 5 year old when this happens was FDR, another president who had no regard for the Constitution and thought of himself as a dictator and had no respect for our system of checks and balances.

So nice try Huffington Post, but a review of the Constitution and our nations history would be beneficial here.
 

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
In my book its the republicans that are acting childish and throwing little tantrums everywhere they can because they aren't getting their way.

I don't know as much about the constitution as you but it really seems funny they would pass this House Resolution right before they planned to shut the government down. I think the republicans passed this solely to keep this shutdown going as long as they can. They didn't want any other republicans caving in and bringing a resolution up for vote to fund the government.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
How are they throwing tantrums? They have no power to shut down memorials. They have no power to shut down parks. They've presented bills to continue other funding but not the ACA which the Democrats have rejected. I fail to see a single instance of a Republican throwing a tantrum and punishing people.

By the way the House has no power to shut down the government so I don't see how they did shut it down. What the Republicans want to do, defund the ACA for one year, has happened THOUSANDS of times before, and nobody shut down memorials or parks for it, except Barack Hussein Obama.
 

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
There was no appropriations bill passed by the House this time to keep any of the parks open like there was when Clinton was in office. Since the House is controlled by republicans if it was so important to them to have the parks open they should of appropriated the money for it. So yes they are responsible for shutting down the parks. Yet they try to blame the democrats for it when they have as much of a hand in it as anyone.

What's the big deal about a government shutdown? - The Week
 

Van

Heavy Weapons Guy
V.I.P.
Don't forget that Harry Reid isn't allowing a vote in the senate either. He has loads of bills from the house sitting on his desk (as I'm sure the Speaker probably does as we'll) that they won't allow to the floor. I believe that is business as usual for Washington. That way when the houses are controlled by different parties the partisans don't have to put their vote to match what they have been saying. It's a way to protect your underlings on both sides. Normally they would bass a budget and it would then go to the other house and then they go to committee to negotiate differences. But Harry hasn't passed a budget and therefore screwed up the process. There is no such thing as a clean CR, you can probably give a lot less credence to anyone who repeats that mantra because they have no idea what the hell they are talking about. The democrats demand the republicans give them 100% of what they want and haven't made any serious attempts at negotiating. Therefore I lay more blame with the democrats but certainly not all. My issue with the republicans is they are weak and have taken way too long to make noise about this. I think the federal government needs to shrink in size by at least 30%. We need a freaking balanced budget, and guess what, yeah, it's going to be painful and it's going to suck. But what is the alternative screw over my generation while the people who screwed it up can retire with full pensions in comfort. Yeah these guys aren't selfish all because they "care" about you. But conservatives who want to balance the budget, they don't care anyway and want to push granny over the cliff.

By the way notice how the democrats want to extend the debt ceiling to after the midterm election. So who is playing politics here?

Don't get me wrong I'm not a democrats all suck and republicans all rock kind of guy. I'm a pretty much all democrats are wrong and a few handful of the conservative rebublicans have it right kind of guy. Let's face it 90% of them will sign off on a back room deal and guess who will get screwed.
 
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CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
There was no appropriations bill passed by the House this time to keep any of the parks open like there was when Clinton was in office. Since the House is controlled by republicans if it was so important to them to have the parks open they should of appropriated the money for it. So yes they are responsible for shutting down the parks. Yet they try to blame the democrats for it when they have as much of a hand in it as anyone.

What's the big deal about a government shutdown? - The Week
They don't need an appropriations bill to have them funded. The WWII Memorial for example costs next to nothing to upkeep. Besides, since Obama and the Democrats seem to think he can sign an Executive Order whenever he wants, if it was such a big deal to him, why didn't he just sign an Executive Order to keep them funded?
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Besides the fact that the Republican House HAS passed bills that would fund these parks and memorials and Reid neglects to have the Senate vote on them. So yes, this shutdown and the effects are 100% on the Democrats.
 
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Van

Heavy Weapons Guy
V.I.P.
So yes, this shutdown and the effects are 100% on the Democrats.
I still say the republicans should have made much more public noise about government spending and passing a budget in the senate before this. Thats why I wouldn't lay blame for the situation solely at the feet of the democrats. What the republicans should have done though is nothing compared to Reid's failure to bring a budget to the senate floor and pass it. He should resign...I'm obviously not a democrat but I can't stand this guy. He's such a partisan hack... Then again majority leaders usually are otherwise they can't obtain that position.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
I still say the republicans should have made much more public noise about government spending and passing a budget in the senate before this. Thats why I wouldn't lay blame for the situation solely at the feet of the democrats. What the republicans should have done though is nothing compared to Reid's failure to bring a budget to the senate floor and pass it. He should resign...I'm obviously not a democrat but I can't stand this guy. He's such a partisan hack... Then again majority leaders usually are otherwise they can't obtain that position.
They've tried, a budget without funding the ACA. This has been done countless times in the 224 years the Constitution has been in existence. I blamed the Republicans as well, for causing this, but the fact that it hasn't been resolved is on the Democrats.

What I find interesting is we have an Act passed by Congress, and Article I sec. I states "All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States..." yet we have a president who is granting exceptions to an Act (not a member of Congress but the head of a different branch of government) giving exceptions to the Act to corporations and not individuals. I can only imagine what would happen if a Republican bypassed his constitutional authority and granted exceptions to a Law passed by Congress to corporations and not the "little guy".
 

Van

Heavy Weapons Guy
V.I.P.
So the day before the shutdown republicans passed a House Resolution that says only the House majority leader can bring a bill to the floor for a vote like the clean resolution bill that would probably pass if it were voted on. Now I ask myself why would they do this and the only answer I can come up with is they want this shutdown to go on as long as possible maybe even to the point of default.
Also we won't default unless Obama has his treasury secretary pay something else instead of the interest and principle on the debt. These debts are supposed to be paid first and we take in roughly 200b a month and only pay 20-30ish to service the debt. If we default the blame can be placed 100% on Obama.

Here is a simple question for people, should we continue spending more than we take in? I don't think they should raise the debt ceiling unless we have HUGE decreases in government spending. Doing 20 or 30% up front might be bad for the economy but they should taper it starting with at least 10% cuts a cross the board. We need to pull a dave Ramsey and cut up the governments credit card.

Obama said in 2006 that the fact they were even standing there talking about raising the debt ceiling was a failure of leadership. Now that he if president though it's all the republicans fault. Who is still supporting this guy? 41% on Gallup? Clearly we have some educatin to do. Of course we wouldn't want to take people off the government dole, that wouldn't be compassionate. A did we did then how could these politicians continue to bribe people into voting for them with OUR money? Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
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They've tried, a budget without funding the ACA. This has been done countless times in the 224 years the Constitution has been in existence. I blamed the Republicans as well, for causing this, but the fact that it hasn't been resolved is on the Democrats.

What I find interesting is we have an Act passed by Congress, and Article I sec. I states "All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States..." yet we have a president who is granting exceptions to an Act (not a member of Congress but the head of a different branch of government) giving exceptions to the Act to corporations and not individuals. I can only imagine what would happen if a Republican bypassed his constitutional authority and granted exceptions to a Law passed by Congress to corporations and not the "little guy".
If memory serves correctly the house only passed the bill defunding obamacare but funding everything else a week or so before the shut down, where were they before that? I could be wrong on that but that is how I remember it. I follow politics fairly closely and the fact that I didn't hear many republicans fighting before this crisis workable speaks volumes.

And completely agree the president clearly does not have the power to choose which parts of a bill to enforce or not.
 
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