Rehabilitation v. Punishment

Discussion in 'Politics & Law' started by Godfearingsecular, May 13, 2007.

  1. Do you think violators of law should be punished or rehabilitated?

    Who should fund the prison, the inmates or the law abiding citizens?

    What rights of citizenry should be forfited as a result of breaking the law?

  2. ChinUp

    ChinUp ¤ Breathe

  3. Excellent link!

    But if you read the first two titles and the conclusion you find he agrees with punishment if properly administered by law. In the first topic, he states "Some motives therefore, that strike the senses were necessary to prevent the despotism of each individual from plunging society into its former chaos."

    Your source endorses punishment when conducted by law equally to all citizens under standards of law... did you conclude differently?
  4. ChinUp

    ChinUp ¤ Breathe

    I agree that law is in place to address criminal activity .. ie punish offenders .. the crucial point is punishments must only punish the perpetrators of crimes rather than punish all the citizens .. for example .. when a criminal is treated by the law in a criminal manner the citizens are being punished for entrusting the authority of law into the hands of criminals ..

    Crime needs to be addressed in a manner that isn't criminal .. if you ask me much of the violent crime is a mental problem .. being able to control yourself is very much a mental health issue Imo ..

    Its far more frightening for a potential perpetrator of violent crime that they will be treated like somebody who is sick in the head rather than a cool bad guy who will get put inside with all the other cool bad guys who got caught .. people fear the stigma of having been to jail than actually going to jail .. its how peoples lives are changed as a result of being convicted of a crime that prevents re-offending & initial offenses ..

    Plus awkwardly enough society needs to have a way of offering people who have been incarcerated with a way to make a legal living .. otherwise people will re-offend as a result of seeing no alternative .. Education & skills need to be a big part of prison time .. especially since people will be far less inclined to hire them if they have been to prison .. military service can be a key player in this .. offering not only a living but discipline skills & a place to live outside of mainstream society ..

    not rehab .. but education & training, alternatives to criminal livelihoods .. rehab is usually religious indoctrination & inmates told what lies to say to the probation panel .. that is not going to give a person a better foundation to build a legal life .. if anything it will only contribute to peoples contempt for law & order ..
  5. I think law abiding citizens shouldn't be punished for the law breaking violators.

    Punishment for law breaking shouldn't be inhumane and should be productive in nature.

    Citizens found guilty of crime should lose selected rights until the period of punishment expires and then be fully reinstated of all rights.

    In my view of punishment there should be a segregation process in classes of crime based on violence and so on... there should be something similar to an army induction station where physical and mental abilities are determined... Placement in confinement should be determined by class of criminal and personal abilities.

    Typical confinment could look like a austere Quaker commune without electricity of modern comforts with all inmates free inside a perimeter fence with the guards on the outside. PA Quaker citizens live without modern comforts and so can prisoners. The less qualified prisoners could produce farm animals and crops to support the prison populations of their class and other classes of prisoners in different facilities... No air conditioning, tv, radio or other media unless they desire to train in the evening hours in a task, condition and standard classroom environment. Prisoners with higher qualifications could be trained and then conduct the training in these classrooms... maintain good performance in training and experience creature comforts... perform poorly and live below in the attic of the cow barn being heated by the body heat of the cows or pigs.

    A prisoner knee deep in hog crap and no creature comforts has little street bragging rights and would take away the prison image now made by the system. Those folks who achieve graduation in the training classes could be put into another productive position such as auto mechanic for government vehicles or tutoring inner-city disadvantaged youth in math and science conducted in a controlled environment. Excesses of foods could be issued to the city, county and state to sustain homeless and incapacitated citizens and offered free to victims of crime for a period equal to their loss by the crime they were a victim of.

    Minor offenses would be handled by community service set to a strict task, condition and standard... failure to properly perform places you knee deep in pig crap. Repeat offenders automatically knee deep in pig crap with no creature conforts for the first year possible.
  6. ChinUp

    ChinUp ¤ Breathe

    For the most part I agree with you .. its very important though not to make people worse as a result of the punishment leveled on them .. people must be made to grow up .. both mentally & emotionally by the correctional establishment .. making them live like animals will only make people even more immature & more likely to re-offend ..

    Every crime has a victim of sorts .. I feel that should dictate the punishment .. educate the perpetrator with the punishment ..

    Bottom line though .. is financial costs .. its just so much cheaper to just treat people like animals .. pity it costs society much much more in behavioral problems ..
  7. CMK_Eagle

    CMK_Eagle Registered Member

    Prison is a terrible way to accomplish either goal of punishment or rehabilitation. For a punishment to be effective, it must be imposed immediately, consistently, and in proper measure. Prison is none of these. Nor does placing a criminal in the near-exclusive company of hundreds or thousands of other criminals sound much like a process likely to improve behavior.

    IMO, criminal justice should use fines and public humiliation as its main tools. Fines should be sufficiently large as to ensure that crime is never a financially viable option, and those who can't pay a fine should have to pay it out of their future wages. As far as public humiliation goes, I don't mean something rediculous like the stocks, but the recent example of a man convicted of mail theft being sentenced to stand outside the post office with a sign that read "I stole mail" seems like a far more effective form of punishment than jail time. It's probably also less likely to cost the offender his job, which would only serve to drive him further into crime.

    I think prison should be used only for those who have shown themselves to present an elevated risk to society. Certain crimes (such as sexual assaults) are very likely to be repeated, and therefore I think that those who do should be imprisoned until such time as they are no longer more likely than an average person to commit that crime again, in addition to any other penalties.
  8. Epsilon

    Epsilon Guest

    Okay, first of all, prison is the best way to rehabilitate someone of every option avaliable to us. "Near-exclusive?" Hardly so. A murderer is put into a maxi-max or super-max prison. There is NO verbal contact among inmates at these prisons. None. Whatsoever.

    Also, incase you didn't know, there is this thing called The Constitution of the United States. According to Amendment 8:

    "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

    There go your public humiliation and fining ideas....Out the window.
  9. CMK_Eagle

    CMK_Eagle Registered Member

    About the only people in a prison who aren't criminals are the guards. Therefore, the vast majority of an inmate's interractions will be with other criminals. As I said before, I fail to see how this is conducive to improving behavior.

    And that's entirely open to interpretation. What qualifies as excessive, cruel, or unusual? If a person who steals a car has a 50% chance of being caught, is a fine of 200-250% the value of the car excessive? Statistically, it ensures that crime is unprofitable, and thus seems to me a much better deterrant than jail time.

    As far as mild public humiliation punishments, why are they considered cruel? How is standing out in public wearing a sign identifying you as a criminal for a day or two worse than going to prison for months or years, and coming out with no job, nowhere to live, no money, and few prospects for a decent job? I'd say destroying a person's life is far more cruel than making him uncomfortable for a day or two.
  10. Epsilon

    Epsilon Guest

    It's not up to you as to what is exessive or not.

    The framers of the constitution decided that. As for the interpretation of the amendment, yes, it is entirely up to interpretation.

    Most people would prefer to be put in prison for a few months, than be uncomfortable in public for a few days.

    As for your opinion on what is a just fine, nno one cares. It's not up to you, as I have previously stated.

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