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PlayStation 3 PSN is down

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
Action? I've seen more child porn on 4chan than I've seen "action" especially action towards any good reason. Like them all you want, something like this is technically terrorism so I'm not sure why that would make anyone like them.
 

Mihael_langley

Formerly "Maikeru"
. But since PSN is FREE, you haven't invested shit in it. And the fact that for a few days you have been unable to get online to play is really not a big deal. Your system still works, so suck it up. As for your "right" to...whatever....seriously? It's a privilege, and a leisure, but definitely not a right. Wow.
So let me see if i get this straight, i dont have the right to have the service up and running, i dont have the right to have my credit card information secure and i dont have the right to play crysis 2 online, a game that i payed 70 bucks to play online with friends this weekend. But That guy has the right to hack into the system, ruin the day of millions of consumers and complain about a feature that according to the terms of agreement sony had the right to remove? Lets not forget that Sony, as the owner of Music, Movies and Video game studios, has the obligation to protect the copyright laws and the artists that works for them.

I wanted to buy games this weekend, i have tons of digital Psp games stored on the cloud that i wanted to download, but i cant. If this was just maintenance to further improve the network i understand and its a bother we have to endure, something i presume will eventually provide a better service to us all. But to be a pawn in the hands of a juvenile freeloader against my own will is unacceptable.
 
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Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
Lol you are totally just pulling stuff out of your ass it seems. I'm not trying to be disrespectful here...
:lol:

Typical 4channer.

Look into what Anonymous has actually done. Look into what they are known for. How are their motives poorly justified? Simply because you disagree in this case?
They're known for child pornography and internet terrorism. Should we really respect them for that? If that's something you respect, then well...I say you've got bigger problems than worrying what other people think about a faceless group of hackers.

Sony got pissed because someone exploited a weakness in their system that allowed people to use the ps3 for something Sony didn't plan for and didn't market or make money on.
Yes, it's a valid reason to be pissed. What's your point? They're not going after these hackers because they're not making money on their work, that logic doesn't even come close to working. They're going after them because the exploitation of their system is driving people away from their network. Simplest example: Call of Duty. If you're playing any of those games online and you're constantly running into some little shit whose so bad at the game that he has to use mods to play even decently, then people are going to leave. When it happens enough, people don't use it period. Hackers drive away business.

That's like Honda getting pissed because every dork with a civic modded the fuck out of it to make it better.
Modding a piece of shit car doesn't affect other peoples' enjoyment and experience with their own vehicles while the little noobs and cheaters who can't play a game worth a damn end up ruining and affecting the playtime of others on the system's network.

Big difference here.

I honestly don't care how heavily someone mods their product, it is theirs like you said. I have a problem when they allow those same exploits to be used by everyone in a way that hurts other who choose not to use them.

When I purchase an item, that means its mine. That means I should be allowed to tweak and mod it any way my little heart desires, because it is mine now. Should I be allowed to profit from it? Probably not, but I should be allowed to make it better for my own personal use. Sony disagrees. Imagine that. So they got their proverbial wrists slapped for being ridiculous.
You're really stuck on this profit thing, aren't you? I'm not sure who is lying to you about that, but I assure you it's not the reason. These hackers broke the security framing of the console, allowing people to fuck around with their network and like I keep saying, ruin the fun other people were having legitimately. I agree though, go ahead and change it however you want but you shouldn't be allowed to damage a whole system of players like that.

To give a somewhat silly metaphor: What if someone could mod their car so that wherever they drove, they could alter the road? What if they could shut your car off just by driving by it? It would be dangerous, frustrating and aggravating. People would stop driving or they would become more aggressive towards one another and eventually laws would have to be passed.

Also. You haven't invested money in PSN. Maybe in a PS3, and the games for it.
BAM! Investment. You're really good at defeating your own arguments :lol:

But since PSN is FREE, you haven't invested shit in it. And the fact that for a few days you have been unable to get online to play is really not a big deal. Your system still works, so suck it up.
First off, wrong.

It is a big deal. Some games have DRM that prevents them from being played without an internet connection (which is bullshit in it's own right but that's for another topic) so those people ARE being inconvenienced to the point that they can't even play those games which THEY spent money on to own themselves. Also, just because the service is free, it doesn't mean that the network going down for days is something users should just 'shrug off' especially when a bunch of internet superheroes think they're being cool by hacking a system millions use each day to prove some vague point that no one will notice nor remember.

Secondly, the people that play these games specifically for their multiplayer such as Call of Duty, Homefront, SOCOM, etc, are losing out on their ability to play the game the way they choose to.

Bottom line, I want to hear why in one sentence why you believe this sort of terrorism is something that should be defended.
 

imnotcreative

Registered Member
Well, first of all, I think one of the biggest problems with this whole debate is thinking that 4chan and Anonymous are the same. That isn't the case. 4chan is all the awful things you want to call them. Totally. Sometimes they can be funny in a juvenile sort of way, but they are still awful. The child porn and stuff....yeah, that's 4chan. It's what 4chan is known for. But Anonymous isn't the same. Do members of Anonymous frequent 4chan? Probably. Your guess is as good as mine. But that doesn't make them any worse than you are for visiting that site.
As for why I keep harping on the profit aspect of this...it fits. I'm not sure what you've read about the whole GeoHot thing, but I'm thinking it probably wasn't the same as what I've read. What I read wasn't talking about mods for games. It wasn't talking about how to cheat at an online game. It was talking about modifying the actual system to allow the user to use the ps3 to play different types of discs etc. I don't understand how that has any effect on anyone else's gameplay enjoyment. Anyone who has played any kind of online game knows how much it sucks when someone else has modded or hacked so they can cheat. That's stupid and takes all the fun out of it for everyone. That's not what I'm talking about.
Even if your credit card information was compromised...what then? Then, you call up your bank and say "hey my shit got stole!" And they send you a new card and refund any unauthorized charges. IF it even comes to that, which it hasn't yet. A minor inconvenience, but no real damage done.
Internet terrorism...there's a fun one. That's a hard one to even get into. I'm going to go ahead and say you're right. It can be called terrorism, if you choose to call it that. I won't argue that point, but I will say I think its a technicality. Terrorism is a pretty broad term. Personally, I don't think it fits here. Anonymous isn't attacking random people, random individual citizens, just because they can. They tell you their motives and plans before they act as well as their reasons. I think this PSN attack was timed to be as easy on all the customers as possible. Yes it still sucks, but they planned it to coincide with the release of two major titles with tons of offline play.

I know you're probably still looking for my one sentence, but when you throw a decent couple paragraphs at me that are worth addressing....well, it gets hard. To sum it up as simply as I can....
Anonymous is a group of average people standing more-or-less together against things they disagree with, and they make things hard on their targets to get the message across without harming anyone or slinging nasty threats or words. Also, being a huge nerd at heart, I'm impressed with their ability. So. There you have it.
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
As for why I keep harping on the profit aspect of this...it fits.
It doesn't and you didn't explain it in your responses below. But go on.

I'm not sure what you've read about the whole GeoHot thing, but I'm thinking it probably wasn't the same as what I've read. What I read wasn't talking about mods for games. It wasn't talking about how to cheat at an online game. It was talking about modifying the actual system to allow the user to use the ps3 to play different types of discs etc. I don't understand how that has any effect on anyone else's gameplay enjoyment.
Well it's clear that wherever you read it on, there was very little attention paid to the consequences of what GeoHotz did.

He basically opened the back door to the system allowing those with the know-how and ability to basically do whatever they wanted with the system. This certainly has ramifications for online play and privacy of PSN users. 'Jailbreaking' (as it is called for those technically handicapped) is not just about playing SNES or PS2 games on the system, it would allow people to do just about anything and that sort of potential is a severe security risk. People having to deal with pussy modders in online games would be the least of any users' worries.

Even if your credit card information was compromised...what then? Then, you call up your bank and say "hey my shit got stole!" And they send you a new card and refund any unauthorized charges. IF it even comes to that, which it hasn't yet. A minor inconvenience, but no real damage done.
You don't just phone up your card company and cancel things. You could have information taken and have no idea, not until you're buried under fraudulent charges and other problems. That is very, very hard to dig out of.

I'm not trying to be rude, but have you owned a credit card? Have you seen the kind of people you have to deal with? How about identity theft? Have you ever dealt with that? It's nowhere near as easy as you make it sound. It's a lot of red tape and walking on thin ice.

Internet terrorism...there's a fun one. That's a hard one to even get into. I'm going to go ahead and say you're right. It can be called terrorism, if you choose to call it that. I won't argue that point, but I will say I think its a technicality. Terrorism is a pretty broad term. Personally, I don't think it fits here. Anonymous isn't attacking random people, random individual citizens, just because they can. They tell you their motives and plans before they act as well as their reasons. I think this PSN attack was timed to be as easy on all the customers as possible. Yes it still sucks, but they planned it to coincide with the release of two major titles with tons of offline play.
I must have missed that part in their address to Sony. Link please to some evidence of this?

Terrorism is not a broad term. It is the utilization of violence and/or threats to coerce people or obtain the things you want. Basically, it's getting your way through fear. It's a very fitting term for Anonymous' methods and it's the one reason I have a hard time supporting them even though I'd love to in some cases (such as their defense of Julian Assange). Terrorism is not about blind hatred and violence, it's simply about power and control.

Anonymous is a group of average people standing more-or-less together against things they disagree with, and they make things hard on their targets to get the message across without harming anyone or slinging nasty threats or words. Also, being a huge nerd at heart, I'm impressed with their ability. So. There you have it.
"Making things hard on their targets", that's how you define crashing an entire network of innocent bystanders to prove some vague point that no one will hear about anyways against some company that they perceive as corrupt or in the wrong by going after someone who sabotaged their creation? This is not just some inconvenience, hypothetically Anonymous caused thousands of dollars worth of damage by preventing people from using PSN and thus halting the flow of profit and now continue to cost Sony money by forcing them to rebuild their infrastructure. All the while, people who have no stake in this have lost the ability to play the games they bought the way they want to.

I bet you I'm at least twice the nerd you are and while the technical aspect of crashing something the size of the PSN is quite a feat, I'm not going to sit here and tell people I'm impressed with a rag tag group of hackers trying to be superheroes.
 

imnotcreative

Registered Member
And since now you've decided to get into something as petty and childish as "i bet I'm ateast twice the nerd you are" I realise that this "discussion" with you are not worth my time. Don't make assumptions about someone you know nothing about, and this isn't a pissing contest. That sucks, because you seemed to be intelligent.
If you want to continue a reasonable debate without reverting to silly tactics, feel free to pm me.
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
And since now you've decided to get into something as petty and childish as "i bet I'm ateast twice the nerd you are" I realise that this "discussion" with you are not worth my time. Don't make assumptions about someone you know nothing about, and this isn't a pissing contest. That sucks, because you seemed to be intelligent.
If you want to continue a reasonable debate without reverting to silly tactics, feel free to pm me.
This is another downside of being a newb or someone who never posts, you're completely incapable of understanding sarcasm or being able to read it from other members.

Don't get all high and mighty with this "not worth my time" junk, that's just immature and a tactic of the desperate and ill informed. Don't ignore my whole post just to try and make me look bad. It's not a very professional tactic and it makes you look silly. Throughout this discussion, you simply don't seem to have an idea as to what is going on here including the extent to which GeoHotz's jailbreaking could damage not just the PSN but also its users. I've been trying to explain to the best of my abilities but if all I'm going to get is you grasping at a thin, desperate opportunity to jab at me, then please do not reply.

Lastly, no one has called this a pissing contest except you.

So pull your pants up.
 

imnotcreative

Registered Member
Or a simple "I apologize, my comment was made in a sarcastic tone" could suffice. You are responsible for forming your words in such a way as to convey the message you are intending to communicate. I'm not trying to make you look bad, but I refuse to continue a conversation with someone who believes that "I'm a bigger nerd than you are" is a valid statement. If it was truly made in jest, that's one thing. Sarcasm does not travel well via text, especially when targeting someone you don't know.
 

Crouton

Ninja
V.I.P.
I'm getting sick of this now, at the start I didn't care but this is beyond ridiculous. Anon have made possibly millions of people angry and pissed off just for their own selfish, childish, immature reasons. Everyone else is suffering just because Sony pissed them off. No one at all gives a crap whether Sony went after some hacker except for a small group of dickless nerds in 4chan. Yet thousands of people worldwide are the ones who have to pay for this?I hope Sony catches whoever did it.
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
Or a simple "I apologize, my comment was made in a sarcastic tone" could suffice. You are responsible for forming your words in such a way as to convey the message you are intending to communicate. I'm not trying to make you look bad, but I refuse to continue a conversation with someone who believes that "I'm a bigger nerd than you are" is a valid statement. If it was truly made in jest, that's one thing. Sarcasm does not travel well via text, especially when targeting someone you don't know.
What part of "That sucks, because you seemed to be intelligent" isn't supposed to make me look bad, hmm?

It's obviously made in jest but a newb wouldn't get that so for that I'll forgive you. However, your decision to go off on such a mundane comment shows desperation in your arguments since you haven't addressed any points given in my last reply.

I'm getting sick of this now, at the start I didn't care but this is beyond ridiculous. Anon have made possibly millions of people angry and pissed off just for their own selfish, childish, immature reasons. Everyone else is suffering just because Sony pissed them off. No one at all gives a crap whether Sony went after some hacker except for a small group of dickless nerds in 4chan. Yet thousands of people worldwide are the ones who have to pay for this?I hope Sony catches whoever did it.
They can protest and make all the statements they want but once it affects other people not involved then I have a bit of a problem with it.
 
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