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Pro-Islam/Anti-Christianity trend?

dDave

Well-Known Member
V.I.P.
I see no difference between Islam and Christianity; both are examples of humans trying to live by standards that have been perverted by humans.
I think this marks a misunderstanding of what Christianity is. We are not under the law, we are under grace (via the new covenant). Christianity is so much more than behavior modification. No doubt you will change outwardly because of your relationship with Christ but that's just it, Christianity is a relationship with God. If we reduce it to behavior modification then we really do not have a gospel worth spreading.

No differences between Christianity and Islam? Does the name Muhammad ring a bell?

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On to the OP...

I was talking to Hoes about the shift in culture that I've seen (briefly).

When I say "pro" I mean that they support the group, not that they subscribe to the beliefs of that group. It may feel pro-Muslim just because so much of our society is anti-Christian these days.


This nation used to be predominantly Christian, now we are shifting more to an agnostic/atheistic point of view though many may still profess to be Christians (as far as I'm concerned you might as well not be a Christian if you're one in name only and go to church twice a year). What I see is a nation that is turning it's back on God completely. There are many that preach tolerance but they're so utterly intolerant of Christianity that I'm not sure what to say. Christianity is considered offensive by some people and that's not a good thing.

Throughout high school and college I've taken many history courses and while Christian history was taught I really do feel as if there was a strong emphasis on Islam. Here's what I remember studying.

-The life of Muhammad (from life til death, we had an entire test over this one subject)
-Sharia Law
-The five pillars of Islam and what they mean (we spent over month on this topic)
-Islamic customs
-We read portions of the Qur'an
-We read 5 novels that I can think of that are heavily Islamic in nature
-The Crusades
-Islamic music
-Islamic architecture
-Islamic art
-The layout of a Mosque and symbolism there (especially the Dome of the Rock)
-Islamic theology

Now, I'm not necessarily saying this is a bad thing but it seems sorely imbalanced all things considered. Why is it ok to discuss all of these things but completely wrong to discuss Jesus and his sacrifice at the hill of Calvary or maybe the apostles? I'm not talking about just one or two classes, most of my history felt almost saturated with material that was Islamic in nature. These aren't things that were just mentioned in passing or mentioned just in the textbook, no, we went in depth and really explored the Islamic world.

I'm sure a large part of the anti-Christian feeling I'm getting is the fact that there are still way more Christians in America than Muslims and thus they get more hate, it's volume by number of followers in the country I suppose.


I agree with CO about the laws. Kind of hard not to.


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I don't see a lot of pro-Islam. It does seem that people fail to realize what it means to live under Islam or Sharia rule. Women are property, gays are exterminated, anyone who worships God in another way is put to death. I know that a lot of people realize this reality. But I look at the backlash Malhr gets or I see politicians call Islam a religion of peace and I don't get it.
I do find it strange that most people really don't see just how bad Islam is, especially in a country that would seem to be so concerned about women and gay rights.
 

Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
V.I.P.
It's imposing as much of Christianity as laws outlawing murder because one of the Ten Commandments is Thou Shalt not Kill. Sorry, that argument makes no sense. Whether I am forced to smoke marijuana or not is irrelevant, if I want it to stay illegal and don't want to live in a state or country where it is legalized and it's legalized you ARE imposing your beliefs on me.

Fact is all laws are imposing beliefs of the total of society on everyone else, that's just the way it is. You can't single out laws on religious beliefs and accept laws for any other reason of imposition. You can't have it both ways. Either a society passes laws based on what it acceptable to that society or no laws can be passed. As long as those laws don't force you to practice a certain religion there is nothing wrong with them.
There's a difference between laws limiting or prohibiting what one can do and laws that don't. For the latter, such as legal marijuana, it's not really a law at all. It's the absence of law. Or, in other words, liberty. And liberty is pretty much the opposite of imposing beliefs. Only when one's liberty is being interfered with are beliefs being imposed.

But I would still argue that there's a difference between a law banning drunk driving, which is a safety measure to protect lives, or a law banning murder, which protects others' right to live, and a law banning gay marriage, which has no purpose other than to serve religious beliefs at the expense of the liberty of the gay community.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
That's such a reach. And by that argument if you are prohibiting me from opposing gay marriage for religious reasons aren't you interfering with my liberty? Don't I have the right to oppose any law for any reason? As long as my reasons don't impose anything on anyone else? And since no one is forced to practice Christianity because I oppose gay marriage how is it wrong?

Again, you can't have it both ways. You can't just say "you're imposing your religious beliefs on me" as if that's some broad blanket cover. I have a right to walk down the street and not have to be around pot smokers but if marijuana is legalized I'm just going to have to deal with it aren't I? Or can I use that same imposition argument? Or does the imposition argument ONLY apply to religion? Even when it doesn't?

For the record I support gay marriage and I find laws not recognizing it unconstitutional, but the "religious imposition" law is just logically flawed and makes no sense. I, or anybody, can oppose anything for any reason I want, and EVERY SINGLE law is the majority imposing upon the minority. To single out this and oppose it because it imposes something on someone else makes no sense. By that logic every single law should to taken off the books and we should just live in anarchy.
 

Mickiel

Registered Member
I think this marks a misunderstanding of what Christianity is. We are not under the law, we are under grace (via the new covenant). Christianity is so much more than behavior modification. No doubt you will change outwardly because of your relationship with Christ but that's just it, Christianity is a relationship with God. If we reduce it to behavior modification then we really do not have a gospel worth spreading.

No differences between Christianity and Islam? Does the name Muhammad ring a bell?

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.


Does paganism ring a bell? Christianity is more pagan than Islam, by far. Yet telling you that is meaningless, because Christianity is more blind about it's true condition, than any religion I have looked at. We may as well call It" Pagan Christianity", which by the way is the title of Frank Viola's stunning book I read recently. Christianity is all messed up, yet stunningly, no Christian is aware of it; which is proof to me that there are spiritual forces at work, unseen to humanity, that hold the power to absolutely blind humanity to what ever they wish.


In my view, Christianity has done MORE to deceive this world than Islam has; the perverted Christian doctrine of eternal hell punishing has done more to scar humanity than all of the perverted sects of Islam combined has. Christianity has authored religious doctrines that has crippled humanity as a whole for centuries. They , and Islam, have polluted the world view of God himself; as ALL religions have. Because those views are based on human interpretation, not true revelation.
 

dDave

Well-Known Member
V.I.P.
Does paganism ring a bell? Christianity is more pagan than Islam, by far. Yet telling you that is meaningless, because Christianity is more blind about it's true condition, than any religion I have looked at. We may as well call It" Pagan Christianity", which by the way is the title of Frank Viola's stunning book I read recently. Christianity is all messed up, yet stunningly, no Christian is aware of it; which is proof to me that there are spiritual forces at work, unseen to humanity, that hold the power to absolutely blind humanity to what ever they wish.


In my view, Christianity has done MORE to deceive this world than Islam has; the perverted Christian doctrine of eternal hell punishing has done more to scar humanity than all of the perverted sects of Islam combined has. Christianity has authored religious doctrines that has crippled humanity as a whole for centuries. They , and Islam, have polluted the world view of God himself; as ALL religions have. Because those views are based on human interpretation, not true revelation.
So your argument is that everyone's doctrine is wrong? How about Frank Viola? Could his doctrine be 100% wrong? What about yours? Mine?

Christianity has authored religious doctrines? (sorry, I just want to clarify your meaning here) Are we talking what people over the past 2000 years have written or are we talking about what is written in the Bible? I have a feeling there's a distinction to be made there.

I think Christianity is based on true revelation from God. Technically the Bible is written by men but I believe it to be the divine word of God (in other words, God gave them the words to write). I do think certain translations get much closer to the original meaning than others.

I want no part in religion anyway, I'd rather have a relationship with God. The word Religion usually carries a connotation of behavior modification, legalism, and control, not at all what I'm interested in. I am a Christian, I don't want to know only about Christ, I want to KNOW Christ. The Pharisees knew all about Christ and knew the scriptures in and out, they were still constantly getting it wrong, we know this because Jesus himself exposed that.

I'm not saying all Christians are perfect by any means (heck no, that'd be a stupid argument) but we can't run under the assumption that every person that claims to be a Christian has it wrong. Sure, a lot of Christians do have it wrong, but not everyone.

Also, the Bible (if we are to believe what it says) is firm and clear on the concept of an eternal Hell.
 

MenInTights

not a plastic bag
It seems to me if Christianity were not true and Hell was a false doctrine, its still done far more good than harm. Without a concept of eternal punishment, a lot of people would rape, steal and kill. Why not?
Of course just hypothetical. Christ and Hell are real, obviously.
 

Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
V.I.P.
I don't see a lot of pro-Islam. It does seem that people fail to realize what it means to live under Islam or Sharia rule. Women are property, gays are exterminated, anyone who worships God in another way is put to death. I know that a lot of people realize this reality. But I look at the backlash Malhr gets or I see politicians call Islam a religion of peace and I don't get it.
I do find it strange that most people really don't see just how bad Islam is, especially in a country that would seem to be so concerned about women and gay rights.
I don't think Islam as a whole supports Sharia law. But how would it be any different than if Jews and Christians today supported the law of the Old Testament? A lot of the stuff in there is barbaric.


Don't I have the right to oppose any law for any reason? As long as my reasons don't impose anything on anyone else? And since no one is forced to practice Christianity because I oppose gay marriage how is it wrong?
If you oppose something for religious reasons, how is that NOT imposing religious beliefs on others? It may not force them to believe in your religion, but it is forcing them to live in accordance with your religion, at least partially. And the more laws there are that are based on religion, the more it is imposed.

EVERY SINGLE law is the majority imposing upon the minority.
That's kind of the problem with democracy, isn't it? It imposes beliefs on others and invites discrimination.

By that logic every single law should to taken off the books and we should just live in anarchy.
The only thing worse than anarchy is government, right? Now I'm not in favor of total anarchy, but why do we even need any laws but ones that protect our constitutional rights, our safety, and our property? Laws should mostly be to restrict government, not people.


Without a concept of eternal punishment, a lot of people would rape, steal and kill. Why not?
Right. That explains why all of the non-believers go around raping, stealing, and killing. Because why not? We have no morals! :rolleyes:
 

MenInTights

not a plastic bag
I don't think Islam as a whole supports Sharia law. But how would it be any different than if Jews and Christians today supported the law of the Old Testament? A lot of the stuff in there is barbaric.
I haven't examined it in detail but it seems that most countries that are predominately Islamic follow these barbaric laws.



Right. That explains why all of the non-believers go around raping, stealing, and killing. Because why not? We have no morals! :rolleyes:
To clarify, I thought part of the evolution story was that people invented religion to keep people in line. That's what I meant by the concept of eternal punishment being good. But I really don't know what evolution thought is.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
If you oppose something for religious reasons, how is that NOT imposing religious beliefs on others? It may not force them to believe in your religion, but it is forcing them to live in accordance with your religion, at least partially. And the more laws there are that are based on religion, the more it is imposed.



That's kind of the problem with democracy, isn't it? It imposes beliefs on others and invites discrimination.



The only thing worse than anarchy is government, right? Now I'm not in favor of total anarchy, but why do we even need any laws but ones that protect our constitutional rights, our safety, and our property? Laws should mostly be to restrict government, not people.

Because you aren't forced to practice Christianity. Even if you accept it as imposing beliefs, so what? Isn't everything that is passed imposing beliefs?


No, that's the problem with human kind.


Laws are to restrict both. There are laws that restrict the government from spying on me and laws that restrict me from stealing from my neighbor without repercussions.
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To clarify, I thought part of the evolution story was that people invented religion to keep people in line. That's what I meant by the concept of eternal punishment being good. But I really don't know what evolution thought is.




That's always been the story to me. The fiction told was religion is meant for nothing but to control, but then that means if you AREN'T religious or don't follow religion then you aren't being controlled and can act immorally. If you accept the premise that you can be moral without religion, and I do, then the story about it being used to control is illogical.
 
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Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
V.I.P.
Because you aren't forced to practice Christianity. Even if you accept it as imposing beliefs, so what? Isn't everything that is passed imposing beliefs?
This thread is about why there is anti-Christian sentiment, and I've explained why. Because people feel as if Christians are trying to impose their religious beliefs on others. Or at least that's one reason. You don't need to be forced to practice religion in order to have religious beliefs imposed on you. Those religious beliefs are imposed on you as soon as they start interfering with your life by telling you what you can't do. You can't have freedom of religion without freedom from religion. There is no religious liberty if you aren't free from the rules and dogmas of other religions. That is my opinion from a non-religious perspective. You have a religious perspective, so of course you aren't going to agree with me.
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There are many that preach tolerance but they're so utterly intolerant of Christianity that I'm not sure what to say. Christianity is considered offensive by some people and that's not a good thing.

...

I do find it strange that most people really don't see just how bad Islam is.
How is that not hypocritical?

But maybe Islam isn't the problem. To quote CO, maybe it's the problem with human kind.
 
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