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Poll: America A Solidly Progressive Nation

Tucker

Lion Rampant
A new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll (PDF file) finds broad support among Americans for a host of traditionally liberal issues. From the staunchly un-liberal Journal:

In the poll, Americans across all age groups and ideologies said by large margins that it was "unacceptable'' to make significant cuts in entitlement programs in order to reduce the federal deficit. Even tea party supporters, by a nearly 2-to-1 margin, declared significant cuts to Social Security "unacceptable."

At the same time, a majority supported two specific measures that lawmakers might employ to shore up the shaky finances of the main entitlement programs.

More than 60% of poll respondents supported reducing Social Security and Medicare payments to wealthier Americans.
WSJ/NBC News Poll Finds Support Lacking for Entitlement Reductions - WSJ.com



Other results:


Phase out Bush cuts for families making over $250,000 - 68%

Eliminate tax credits for oil/gas industry - 74%

Eliminate military expenditures the Pentagon doesn't want - 76%

Support public union bargaining - 77%

Raise taxes on millionaires - 81%



Your thoughts on this data? The numbers speak fairly loudly, in my estimation. I haven't been privy to any conservative reaction as of yet, but an educated guess will be that some will respond with "Polls don't matter!" (although they personally quote them all the time), while here on GF a few might be torn between disputing the poll's methodology (possibly, before they've even read it) and not wanting to bump a thread that has a Leftist propagandist title for a change. The floor, ladies and men, is yours.
 
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Wade8813

Registered Member
It seems to me that these don't tell us the real story.

For instance, I have a huge problem with a lot of these government programs (not all of them). But you can't just slash payouts to people who've already paid the taxes to receive that money; that's basically stealing from them.

It should also be pointed out that "reduce military expenditures that the pentagon doesn't want" sounds like one of those "No duh" things. "We don't wanna spend the money, but we're gonna do it anyway just for the lolz"
 

shelgarr

Registered Member
On the surface I can see anyone voting in favor of those. Whom amongst Dems or Reps, rich or poor, would be against getting more taxes from company(s) and the wealthy. It's easy, and doable, and "fair" and afteral, they have no troubles like the rest of the country. Isn't it compassionate and practical to go to those that have the most money to share? What most those pollsters don't realize though, is the deeper meaning of what such an anti-capitaism socialist philosophy will do. As in, it's effect on the economy and the invasion of our rights. So this tells me that the polls reflect a lack of understanding by a majority of the population.
 
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CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
1) I don't know any group, conservative or otherwise that claim "polls dont matter"

2) the methodology is somewhat suspect. 1000 people isn't a significant sample size.

3) I'm not sure about the use of the words "significant cuts." What constitutes a significant cut? And what does not?

4) let's accept the results as true for the sake of argument. Are they really all that suprising? I think most people object to significant cuts, that is massive cuts rather than reform or nominal cuts, to programs that aid the elderly and poor. And is that really progressive? I mean again, most people may or may not want some reform or some cuts but object to significant cuts.
 
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Sim

Registered Member
I don't think polls don't matter, but it's true we should take them with a grain of salt, because depending on the exact wording, you get very different results on the same questions. But I believe polls matter, and they can at least properly display tendencies and trends.

This in mind, I disagree that 1000 people is not a sufficiently large sample of people. It's well possible to take 1000 as a basis for a representative poll with a reasonable error margin (IIRC, polls of that size usually have an error margin of between 3% and 5%).

That doesn't mean, of course, this study was necessarily properly executed, I can't judge that, but I assume the pollsters knew what they were doing.

My first thought when reading these polls results is that America seems pretty much polarized. There are other polls showing very strong disagreement with Obama and his policies, which maybe allows the conclusion that most people either strongly agree, or strongly disagree with these policies, and there are only few in the middle. But that's just a guess.

Another "fun" poll:

Nearly Half Of Mississippi Republicans Think Interracial Marriage Should Be Illegal | TPMDC

Allegedly, 46% of the Mississippi Republicans believe interracial marriage should be illegal. 50% said they identify as Republicans, which means this concerns 23% of all Mississippi people, assuming this poll was conducted properly.
 
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shelgarr

Registered Member
Another "fun" poll:

Nearly Half Of Mississippi Republicans Think Interracial Marriage Should Be Illegal | TPMDC

Allegedly, 46% of the Mississippi Republicans believe interracial marriage should be illegal. 50% said they identify as Republicans, which means this concerns 23% of all Mississippi people, assuming this poll was conducted properly.
Craizness! Good illustration of those bumbling republicans and good thing they are the minority in this poll (altho I am having trouble interpreting the 50% and 23% figure you threw in there). I have to wonder though how many if those 46% are black republicans. (2009 cencus-37% of MS is black; 13% USA is black). I've seen instances where blacks express disapproval when they date outside their own race.

But it doesn't really apply in this discussion because we're focused on spending. And sadly those polls show a majority. A confused majority.
 
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MenInTights

not a plastic bag
There was some good stuff in the data. Questions 19 and 20 were key to me:
==================================
Q19: How concerned are you personally with the federal budget problems including the federal budget debt and our national debt and its affect on your family's future:
A great deal: 48%
Quit a bit:32%
Only a little: 17%
Not at all: 3%

Q20: If Congress made major across the board cuts in order to reduce government spending, how much would this concern you personally?
A great deal: 36%
Quite a bit: 26%
Only a little: 26%
Not at all: 10%
==========================================

Everybody agrees that we're in a mess and something needs to be done, but nobody wants their pet put to sleep. Its disheartening to me because you're right, we are a progressive nation. I don't see the firm reliance on the providential hand of God, the rugged individualism or the American entrepreneurship that we used to have.

But, thankfully we all see the problem. I'm looking forward to 2012 where we can finally air out these problems nationally and get to real solutions. And I don't care who puts them in. I believe at this point, its too late to be partisan.

Just some thoughts about your bullet-points:
More than 60% of poll respondents supported reducing Social Security and Medicare payments to wealthier Americans.
Reforming SS and Medicare has got to be a key component. I have a hard time supporting taking SS from the wealthy because that's a promise made to them. I do believe that most wealthy people would voluntarily forfeit their SS if presented with the facts and they knew it was going to reduce the debt burden of their grandchildren.

Phase out Bush cuts for families making over $250,000 - 68%
Sounds reasonable as long as its part of serious spending cuts

Eliminate tax credits for oil/gas industry - 74%
Sarah Palin did this in Alaska. I think all people are fed up with corporate welfare regardless if its Sonoco or GE.

Eliminate military expenditures the Pentagon doesn't want - 76%
Really, only 76%.

Support public union bargaining - 77%
I'm surprised at this one.

Raise taxes on millionaires - 81%
As long as its modest and a part of deep spending cuts.
 
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Sim

Registered Member
Craizness! Good illustration of those bumbling republicans and good thing they are the minority in this poll (altho I am having trouble interpreting the 50% and 23% figure you threw in there). I have to wonder though how many if those 46% are black republicans. (2009 cencus-37% of MS is black; 13% USA is black). I've seen instances where blacks express disapproval when they date outside their own race.

But it doesn't really apply in this discussion because we're focused on spending. And sadly those polls show a majority. A confused majority.
You said something about sarcasm. How do I have to interpret your statements? Do I understand you correctly that you claim blacks are responsible for rabid racism in Mississippi? If yes, are the Jews also responsible for the Holocaust? Just asking. Want to know where you stand.
 
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shelgarr

Registered Member
You said something about sarcasm. How do I have to interpret your statements? Do I understand you correctly that you claim blacks are responsible for rabid racism in Mississippi? If yes, are the Jews also responsible for the Holocaust? Just asking. Want to know where you stand.
I was being sarcastic about the evidence you used to illustrate "bumbling republicans" where bumbling is far from the truth of my opinion. Guess it went right over your head. I'll bracket it next time. My other comment about what percent might be blacks is just me thinking out loud and maybe get you thinking quietly that there might be blacks that don't want interracial marriage. Jew causing halocaust is all you!
 
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Sim

Registered Member
I was being sarcastic about the evidence you used to illustrate "bumbling republicans" where bumbling is far from the truth of my opinion. Guess it went right over your head. I'll bracket it next time. My other comment about what percent might be blacks is just me thinking out loud and maybe get you thinking quietly that there might be blacks that don't want interracial marriage. Jew causing halocaust is all you!
Thanks for clearing that up.

Well, either the poll is true and 46% of the Mississippi Republicans are indeed racist scum, or the poll is wrong and they are not. Do you have any support for the claim this poll is not accurate, which is well possible, after all?

Even if it's true, it doesn't mean that "Republicans are bumbling". It just means 46% of the Mississippi Republicans are racists.

I remember one poll that said around 90% of the blacks in America consider themselves liberal and/or vote Democrats. If that's true, and is the case in Mississippi too, it's safe to say that by far most of these 46% of Republicans are not black (roughly 90% of these 46%, or 41% of the 100% M. Reps, as ca. 4.6% of those Republicans are black, assuming this sentiment is just as common among black Reps as among non-black Reps).

The "23% of people in Mississippi believe interracial marriage should be banned" is a direct conclusion from the figures in that poll: The poll said that 50% of all people in Mississippi identify as conservative, so when 46% of them want interracial marriage banned, that means they are 23% of all people in Mississippi (at minimum, because maybe some non-conservatives want it banned too).

Polls like this, even if the numbers are exaggerated, are showing that anti-black racism still exists in America. In some regions apparently even among a pretty large number of people.

Considering that, I find it worrying to say the least, that the immediate knee-jerk reaction of many seems to be to deny that, and immediately pointing to blacks who complain about this racism, calling them "racist" in return. This behavior seems to be common sense among many on the right in America these days: Racism against blacks is not allowed to be mentioned, because that would be "playing the race card". And blacks who have the nerve complaining must be "black racists".

Yes, you got that right: There is no white racism against blacks whatsoever, that's just a liberal lie. The only racism that still exists is that of blacks against whites. Or the self-hatred of white liberals "playing the race card".

When most Germans start pointing to the Jews, claiming "they must have done something to provoke the Nazis, else they wouldn't have attacked them", I'll let you know. Unfortunately, we have some of them here. But I'm glad they are not very dominant yet, as far as I can tell.
 
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