Political Review of 2009 (Satire)

MenInTights

not a plastic bag
#3
Tom Tomorrow Year In Review:

Jan:
Gets government setup he's dreamed about for years: Liberal Prez and super-majority in Congress.

Feb-Dec:
Forgets that he spent the last 8 years worried about wire taps, war on terror, gay rights, deficient spending and a host of other problems Obama was going to 'fix', instead spends next 11 months blaming the world's problems on out of power Republicans, peaceful Christians and Fox News.
 

Sim

Registered Member
#4
Tom Tomorrow Year In Review:

Jan:
Gets government setup he's dreamed about for years: Liberal Prez and super-majority in Congress.

Feb-Dec:
Forgets that he spent the last 8 years worried about wire taps, war on terror, gay rights, deficient spending and a host of other problems Obama was going to 'fix', instead spends next 11 months blaming the world's problems on out of power Republicans, peaceful Christians and Fox News.
As far as I can see, he doesn't "blame the world's problems on" anyone, but just points out the really batshit crazy idiot moments of the contemporary right-wing fringe nut section. And this craziness has not become any less with a Democrat in the White House, but rather even increased. The American right is delusional, completely detached from reality and has lost any kind of "moral compass" it may have ever possessed, and the 2009 events show this more clearly than anything else.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#5
As far as I can see, he doesn't "blame the world's problems on" anyone, but just points out the really batshit crazy idiot moments of the contemporary right-wing fringe nut section. And this craziness has not become any less with a Democrat in the White House, but rather even increased. The American right is delusional, completely detached from reality and has lost any kind of "moral compass" it may have ever possessed, and the 2009 events show this more clearly than anything else.
I'm sorry Sim, but I've seen you on here call Pro a political hack for being so one sided and here you are exhibiting the exact same kind of behavior you criticize. To say the American right is delusional, detached from reality and lost any moral compass is deviod of any kind of intellectual honesty whatsoever.

You do realize just about all of Tomorrow's cartoon is taking events to the extreme and is bullshit, right?
 

MenInTights

not a plastic bag
#6
First, it was a joke, sorry if it didn't come across as such.

I honestly know nothing about TT, but I guess if he can provide a healthy release for the "batshit crazy idiot" left that's a good thing.

Better they laugh at a unnamed, undocumented tea-party member than to drink poisoned kool-aid(Jim Jones), send pipe-bombs to the Universities(Ted Kazenski), or tie themselves to an oil rig(Greenpeace).

Because you know, if ALL conservatives are delusional and completely detached like you suggest then ALL liberals are are pipe-bombing, mass murders that want to make love to the polar bears, right? :lol: (that's another joke)
 

Sim

Registered Member
#7
I'm sorry Sim, but I've seen you on here call Pro a political hack for being so one sided and here you are exhibiting the exact same kind of behavior you criticize. To say the American right is delusional, detached from reality and lost any moral compass is deviod of any kind of intellectual honesty whatsoever.
Well I should have said "parts of the American right". But those who are on the crazy train of Beck/Palin etc. certainly are, and anybody who has the slightest sense for reality left in his mind can see that.

You do realize just about all of Tomorrow's cartoon is taking events to the extreme and is bullshit, right?
Taking events to the extreme? Maybe, that's what satire does.

Bullshit? Not at all. Because despite all exaggerations, good satire hits close to home just because there is much truth in it.

Not a single of the events depicted in the cartoon is invented, all of it actually took place. And those on the right who advanced these ideas were not at all tongue in cheek when they did it, they were dead serious.

Or do you want to say when i.e. Palin ranted against alleged "death penals", she didn't mean it? When the tea baggers went to townhall meetings, did they not mean what they said, but were just joking? When the right ranted about "telepromptergate", did they not mean it? When Obama was time and again compared to Hitler for no other reason but his abilities as a good public speaker, was that satire? When Newsmax committed high treason by proposing a military coup against President Obama, was that merely tongue-in-cheek satire, or did they voice a feeling of many on the right, who'd say and mean similar things?

That's the sad thing about the American right: It's become so detached from reality by now that many things they say or do sound like satire. But they aren't satire, they actually mean it and believe it.

If you disagree, then prove me wrong and explain which events in the cartoon were invented, or which were not meant that way by those on the right. You will find you cannot find a single event like that, and thus, you have to accept that I am right.
 
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CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#8
Well I should have said "parts of the American right". But those who are on the crazy train of Beck/Palin etc. certainly are, and anybody who has the slightest sense for reality left in his mind can see that.
Again with the partisanship. Disagreeing with a point of view doesn't make that person crazy.

Taking events to the extreme? Maybe, that's what satire does.

Bullshit? Not at all. Because despite all exaggerations, good satire hits close to home just because there is much truth in it.

Not a single of the events depicted in the cartoon is invented, all of it actually took place. And those on the right who advanced these ideas were not at all tongue in cheek when they did it, they were dead serious.

Or do you want to say when i.e. Palin ranted against alleged "death penals", she didn't mean it? When the tea baggers went to townhall meetings, did they not mean what they said, but were just joking? When the right ranted about "telepromptergate", did they not mean it? When Obama was time and again compared to Hitler for no other reason but his abilities as a good public speaker, was that satire? When Newsmax committed high treason by proposing a military coup against President Obama, was that merely tongue-in-cheek satire, or did they voice a feeling of many on the right, who'd say and mean similar things?

That's the sad thing about the American right: It's become so detached from reality by now that many things they say or do sound like satire. But they aren't satire, they actually mean it and believe it.

If you disagree, then prove me wrong and explain which events in the cartoon were invented, or which were not meant that way by those on the right. You will find you cannot find a single event like that, and thus, you have to accept that I am right.
Was it? Let's just take a look at ONE of them. He puts in his cartoon on May 15th O'Reilly's comment about cameras. He does have people followed with cameras. people who are either elected officials or are receiving federal tax money and are thus accountable, and refuse to answer for what they do. WE as an American public have a RIGHT to question, which is what he's doing. That's 100% opposite of following people with cameras such as papparazzi. So while YOU say it's an exaggeration, it's not. It's misconstruing truth.

Please stop with the "American right is detached from reality" it's really silly unless you can prove that with fact and not just an unfounded opinion.
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Not a single of the events depicted in the cartoon is invented, all of it actually took place. And those on the right who advanced these ideas were not at all tongue in cheek when they did it, they were dead serious.


That's the sad thing about the American right: It's become so detached from reality by now that many things they say or do sound like satire. But they aren't satire, they actually mean it and believe it.

If you disagree, then prove me wrong and explain which events in the cartoon were invented, or which were not meant that way by those on the right. You will find you cannot find a single event like that, and thus, you have to accept that I am right.
Just for shits and giggles let me point to some more. In the first cartoon the second box: Jan. 20 Chief Justice Roberts flubs the Oath and the caption says "wingnuts flip out and claim he really isn't the president". While a very small MINORITY made that claim YOU attribute it ALL right-wing Americans and claim they are not living in reality.

How about the one after that? Again a SMALL minority made that claim and only someone who WANTS to attribute that to ALL people of a particular persuasion would conclude that it does apply.

How about the April 16 box with Texas Gov. Perry? When did he REALLY say he wants to destroy the country? That's not an exaggeration, that's a lie.

How about the June 16 box claiming ALL Republicans are "Family values" candidates? And even if they are, who cares? It's not like ANYONE runs on "I believe everyone should have a mistress". Every married politician took an oath and those that cheated broke it, regardless of party.

I could go on but this has gotten tedious. I know you're smarter than that Sim, to make blanket statements about people you disagree with.

While satire can be entertaining and there is SOME truth to the exaggerations, let's not forget, that's exactly what they are, exaggerations, and shouldn't be confused with truth.
 
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Sim

Registered Member
#9
Again with the partisanship. Disagreeing with a point of view doesn't make that person crazy.
Sorry, but people who believe "Obama is a socialist/Muslim/etc out to destroy America", because he "hates America", that he wants to kill of the elderly with "death penals", that he has a hidden agenda for a "new world order", or people who propose a military coup to topple him/and or secession ARE crazy. They are not just advancing a "different point of view", but they live in an alternate universe that could be called "lala crazyland".

Was it? Let's just take a look at ONE of them. He puts in his cartoon on May 15th O'Reilly's comment about cameras. He does have people followed with cameras. people who are either elected officials or are receiving federal tax money and are thus accountable, and refuse to answer for what they do. WE as an American public have a RIGHT to question, which is what he's doing. That's 100% opposite of following people with cameras such as papparazzi. So while YOU say it's an exaggeration, it's not. It's misconstruing truth.
Ok, this one may be an example for "taking to the extreme". Also, if you had read this one thoroughly, you would have noticed that Tom Tomorrow doesn't give the slightest indication he is against investigative journalism -- he's just pointing out the irony in O'Reilly of all people making such a statement.

Please stop with the "American right is detached from reality" it's really silly unless you can prove that with fact and not just an unfounded opinion.
I did, which you have chosen to ignore, because you don't like it. Come back when you actually want to reply to what I said.

Just for shits and giggles let me point to some more. In the first cartoon the second box: Jan. 20 Chief Justice Roberts flubs the Oath and the caption says "wingnuts flip out and claim he really isn't the president". While a very small MINORITY made that claim YOU attribute it ALL right-wing Americans and claim they are not living in reality.
I said above that I am talking about "a part of the American right". Considering that between 20% and 30% of the Americans answered in polls that they believe Obama is not really an American citizen and thus his presidency is illigetimate (I can dig these polls up again, if you don't believe me), that means (assuming ca. 50% of the Americans belong to the "right") that between 40% and 60% of "the right" actually believe in such conspiracy theories.

I am sure there are many sane people on the right left, but I simply never hear of them, when I read or watch news, surf internet forums or read American blogs -- it seems they have completely vanished recently, and the only people on the "right" left are people who are seriously debating things like Obama's alleged plan for euthanazing the elderly, his plans to destroy America in favor of a "new world order"/"appeasement"/"socialism"/"sympathy for the Muslims"/etc.

So if this kind of American right-wingers is not in the majority, they are at least by far the loudest voices on the right these days.

How about the one after that? Again a SMALL minority made that claim and only someone who WANTS to attribute that to ALL people of a particular persuasion would conclude that it does apply.
As I said: My bad. But look how many people believe this crap, how much things like these are debated in major sources of political information for right-wingers, like the shows of Beck and others ... can you really claim they are not many? Hasn't every single one of these claims excessively been reported about and debated on FOX News?

From what I can tell, it's become absolute mainstream on the American right. And I have never, not a single time seen someone on the right distancing themselves from this crap. So either all sane people on the right have somehow turned left and/or unpolitical, or they just keep their mouthes shut.

How about the April 16 box with Texas Gov. Perry? When did he REALLY say he wants to destroy the country? That's not an exaggeration, that's a lie.
Don't play stupid. Secession IS destryoing the country.

But hey, when you watch this crap being debated all the time, at some point, you might have lost even the last bit of capacity for reflection, so you don't even realize that. Which would prove my first claim: People have been bombed so much with crazy shit like this, they are finally living in an alternate reality, where calls for a military coup against the elected President or calls for secession are not high treason and aimed at destroying the country ...

How about the June 16 box claiming ALL Republicans are "Family values" candidates? And even if they are, who cares? It's not like ANYONE runs on "I believe everyone should have a mistress". Every married politician took an oath and those that cheated broke it, regardless of party.
Ok, that one is an example for "taking to the extreme" satire. Of course it's funny to mock people who still believe "their side" is so moral and clean, and thus are surprised when once, a Republican (sigh!) happens to be caught on the act -- but I agree it's a cheap shot.

I could go on but this has gotten tedious. I know you're smarter than that Sim, to make blanket statements about people you disagree with.

While satire can be entertaining and there is SOME truth to the exaggerations, let's not forget, that's exactly what they are, exaggerations, and shouldn't be confused with truth.
Well ok, I take you by the word, and I am willing to learn from you:

You say claims that Obama is not an American citizen/a Muslim/a terrorist sympathizer/destroying America by appeasement policies have not become mainstream on the right? That calls for a military coup or secession are not actually debated? That conspiracy theories à la "new world order" are not widespread on the right? That leading Republican politicians like Sarah Palin did not suggest Obama wants "death panels"?

Maybe you are right, and those are just very loud, but insignificant number of people on the right fringe. Can you tell me about an American discussion forum where I find American right-wingers who don't believe all this crap. I'd love to debate with them.

I admit that I don't work with or live around Americans, so maybe I'm missing them, but all I know about this topic is from people on the internet and from the news, both online and offline. But at least there, I have the impression that sane right-wingers hardly exist anymore, and those who disagree with Obama without believing all this propaganda crap are not very sympathetic with the Republicans either (and thus rather qualify as independent). But hey, that's just my impression.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#10
Sorry, but people who believe "Obama is a socialist/Muslim/etc out to destroy America", because he "hates America", that he wants to kill of the elderly with "death penals", that he has a hidden agenda for a "new world order", or people who propose a military coup to topple him/and or secession ARE crazy. They are not just advancing a "different point of view", but they live in an alternate universe that could be called "lala crazyland".
Maybe. Maybe not. It's unfair to paint them as broadly as "The American right".



Ok, this one may be an example for "taking to the extreme". Also, if you had read this one thoroughly, you would have noticed that Tom Tomorrow doesn't give the slightest indication he is against investigative journalism -- he's just pointing out the irony in O'Reilly of all people making such a statement.
It's not ironic in the slightest. The two examples are completely different. I don't believe in invading people's privacy. I do believe in holding elected officials accountable. They are two completely seperate and distinct things. Tomorrow portrays them dishonsetly as synonimous.



I
did, which you have chosen to ignore, because you don't like it. Come back when you actually want to reply to what I said.
No. You didn't. You painted everyone with a broad brush which is ridiculous.

By your logic I'll say "Those MoveON.org people are insane for wanting national healthcare thus ALL in the American left are insane".....see how silly that sounds?



I said above that I am talking about "a part of the American right". Considering that between 20% and 30% of the Americans answered in polls that they believe Obama is not really an American citizen and thus his presidency is illigetimate (I can dig these polls up again, if you don't believe me), that means (assuming ca. 50% of the Americans belong to the "right") that between 40% and 60% of "the right" actually believe in such conspiracy theories.
I have no idea how skewed the poll was but that number is ridiculous. What most Americans want is for him to produce his birth certificate which he has failed to do. Since EVERYONE working legally in the U.S. has to produce certain documents proving citizenship and such I don't think it's too much to ask.

I am sure there are many sane people on the right left, but I simply never hear of them, when I read or watch news, surf internet forums or read American blogs -- it seems they have completely vanished recently, and the only people on the "right" left are people who are seriously debating things like Obama's alleged plan for euthanazing the elderly, his plans to destroy America in favor of a "new world order"/"appeasement"/"socialism"/"sympathy for the Muslims"/etc.
That's because, as I've said, you're much too biased. Which is what you accuse Pro as being.

MANY of the claims made against Obama are legitimate. To paint them ALL is insane is intellectually dishonest.

So if this kind of American right-wingers is not in the majority, they are at least by far the loudest voices on the right these days.
I disagree. They are the ones you are focusing on and using to villify the entire right.



As I said: My bad. But look how many people believe this crap, how much things like these are debated in major sources of political information for right-wingers, like the shows of Beck and others ... can you really claim they are not many? Hasn't every single one of these claims excessively been reported about and debated on FOX News?
And how many believe the crap Tomorrow writes, or Olbermann reports, or Chris Mathews reports, or the New York Times writes.......

From what I can tell, it's become absolute mainstream on the American right. And I have never, not a single time seen someone on the right distancing themselves from this crap. So either all sane people on the right have somehow turned left and/or unpolitical, or they just keep their mouthes shut.
Again, you're being much too broad. You've made up your mind that anyone who DOESN'T buy into Obama's bullshit is insane.....which is insane itself.



Don't play stupid. Secession IS destryoing the country.
Not necessarily.

But hey, when you watch this crap being debated all the time, at some point, you might have lost even the last bit of capacity for reflection, so you don't even realize that. Which would prove my first claim: People have been bombed so much with crazy shit like this, they are finally living in an alternate reality, where calls for a military coup against the elected President or calls for secession are not high treason and aimed at destroying the country ...
Yeah, you're right, we're ALL crazy for not bowing down to the chosen one:rolleyes:



Ok, that one is an example for "taking to the extreme" satire. Of course it's funny to mock people who still believe "their side" is so moral and clean, and thus are surprised when once, a Republican (sigh!) happens to be caught on the act -- but I agree it's a cheap shot.
The bigger is how is it relevant? If a senator is cheating on his wife what does that have to do with his stance on abortion, gay marriage, condoms in school, ANYTHING of relevance really?


Well ok, I take you by the word, and I am willing to learn from you:

You say claims that Obama is not an American citizen/a Muslim/a terrorist sympathizer/destroying America by appeasement policies have not become mainstream on the right? That calls for a military coup or secession are not actually debated? That conspiracy theories à la "new world order" are not widespread on the right? That leading Republican politicians like Sarah Palin did not suggest Obama wants "death panels"?

Maybe you are right, and those are just very loud, but insignificant number of people on the right fringe. Can you tell me about an American discussion forum where I find American right-wingers who don't believe all this crap. I'd love to debate with them.

The problem is, and I'm in NO way defending Sarah Palin, is her use of the words "death panels" have some truth to them. Under the current plan for consideration medical care is going to be rationed. That means older people may be sacrificed for younger people. To ignore that is wrong. To ignore her point and mocking her is HARDLY debating.

I admit that I don't work with or live around Americans, so maybe I'm missing them, but all I know about this topic is from people on the internet and from the news, both online and offline. But at least there, I have the impression that sane right-wingers hardly exist anymore, and those who disagree with Obama without believing all this propaganda crap are not very sympathetic with the Republicans either (and thus rather qualify as independent). But hey, that's just my impression.
I understand that's your impression. I would say your impression is skewed into believing what you want to believe.
 
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