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Pirates without disposable income

Wade8813

Registered Member
I've frequently heard the argument that if someone who pirates a movie or song is too poor to have bought it otherwise, then there's no financial harm done to the artist/record label/movie studio.

This seems like a reasonable argument, but it doesn't feel quite right to me. I just can't figure out why. Thoughts?
 

Random9

Registered Member
I've frequently heard the argument that if someone who pirates a movie or song is too poor to have bought it otherwise, then there's no financial harm done to the artist/record label/movie studio.

This seems like a reasonable argument, but it doesn't feel quite right to me. I just can't figure out why. Thoughts?
it's sounds quite true to me too,and i will actually add that it helps the artist/record label/movie studio by advertisement and enlarging the community. i'm not sure however how many of those who claim they are too poor to buy anything are really that poor.
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
The first problem is that you don't music and movies to live. It's not a necessity. Someone stealing food so they don't starve is a harder topic to discuss and a gray area that is difficult to navigate. When it comes to piracy, I'm guilty. I'm not going to pretend I'm not.

Secondly, harm done? It depends.

In the recording industry, pirating music is not hurting the artist. As a matter of fact, all it does is help them thanks to word of mouth. They make next to nothing from record sales as almost all profits go to the record label and those that produced it, this is why bands tour so much because that's where the big money is. Record labels are the ones fighting music piracy while a lot of bands have actually begun giving away free tracks to entice people towards their music. The bands also face conflicts because their labels are going after their fans which puts them at odds. On the one hand they need the contract with the record label to be heard and to get famous but on the other hand, without their fans they're nothing and more fans is more money and fame.

Not to mention, services like iTunes and other music stores have revolutionized the way we buy music and it was not something the industry welcomed with open arms since they can't gouge profits out of their bands.

In gaming, piracy is rampant because of how much gaming companies fight back. Hundreds of PC titles require internet connections to play. No, they're not online games but if you aren't connected to the games' server at all time, it assumes you stole the game and doesn't allow it to play. Then you're forced to sign up for some 'service' to be able to play and then you get screwed by the shitty service and how much it screws with your system. Steam has been the one program that has been killing PC piracy and that's because it's a simple and effective method of delivering PC gaming with great prices, sales and customer service. As a matter of fact, Steam's sales have gone up 100% for the second year in a row which is incredible by any business standard. People want to buy games, many love to be able to support their favorite developers.
 

Random9

Registered Member
The first problem is that you don't music and movies to live. It's not a necessity. Someone stealing food so they don't starve is a harder topic to discuss and a gray area that is difficult to navigate. When it comes to piracy, I'm guilty. I'm not going to pretend I'm not.
but from the other hand if you steal food the one you stole it from needs to make/get a new one,when you steal bits from the internet no one needs to get new ones-thus the nature of the harm done by each form of theft is very different, if i either don't buy food(and starve,but that's not the point) or steal it the one i steal/not steal food from gains more money in this first option than in the second,however if i don't buy a game or steal it the one i steal it from gains the same amount of money from both options.(actually he probably gains more from the second due to advertisement)
Secondly, harm done? It depends.

In the recording industry, pirating music is not hurting the artist. As a matter of fact, all it does is help them thanks to word of mouth. They make next to nothing from record sales as almost all profits go to the record label and those that produced it, this is why bands tour so much because that's where the big money is. Record labels are the ones fighting music piracy while a lot of bands have actually begun giving away free tracks to entice people towards their music. The bands also face conflicts because their labels are going after their fans which puts them at odds. On the one hand they need the contract with the record label to be heard and to get famous but on the other hand, without their fans they're nothing and more fans is more money and fame.

Not to mention, services like iTunes and other music stores have revolutionized the way we buy music and it was not something the industry welcomed with open arms since they can't gouge profits out of their bands.
i don't know about that,i've heard of cases where artists were very opposed to piracy.
In gaming, piracy is rampant because of how much gaming companies fight back. Hundreds of PC titles require internet connections to play. No, they're not online games but if you aren't connected to the games' server at all time, it assumes you stole the game and doesn't allow it to play. Then you're forced to sign up for some 'service' to be able to play and then you get screwed by the shitty service and how much it screws with your system. Steam has been the one program that has been killing PC piracy and that's because it's a simple and effective method of delivering PC gaming with great prices, sales and customer service. As a matter of fact, Steam's sales have gone up 100% for the second year in a row which is incredible by any business standard. People want to buy games, many love to be able to support their favorite developers.
but steam isn't very effective at fighting piracy,it just makes it somewhat easier to buy games.
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
but from the other hand if you steal food the one you stole it from needs to make/get a new one,when you steal bits from the internet no one needs to get new ones
New what? Internets? You're not stealing 'from the internet' as you claim. Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it was supposed to be or that it's not harming anyone. If you wrote a song and began selling it and then saw it on the internet being downloaded 1,000 times while your sales peak at about 10 copies, you'd probably be mad about the lost income but as I had said, at the same time it's a good thing for artists because they get exposure (but I do no think it entirely makes up for the pirating).

thus the nature of the harm done by each form of theft is very different, if i either don't buy food(and starve,but that's not the point) or steal it the one i steal/not steal food from gains more money in this first option than in the second,however if i don't buy a game or steal it the one i steal it from gains the same amount of money from both options.(actually he probably gains more from the second due to advertisement)
I have no idea what you're saying here. Can you try to explain this better?

i don't know about that,i've heard of cases where artists were very opposed to piracy.
Okay, great. Now what? Of course there are artists that oppose it but like I said I don't think it's as high as people think thanks to how much they get gouged in record sales.

but steam isn't very effective at fighting piracy,it just makes it somewhat easier to buy games.
You realize you just disproved the first part of your sentence, right?
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
How much advertising do pirates really accomplish? I mean, if I pirate a song and decide I like a band, that would mostly just mean I'll pirate even more from them.
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
How much advertising do pirates really accomplish? I mean, if I pirate a song and decide I like a band, that would mostly just mean I'll pirate even more from them.
You, sure. But most people when they like music will tell their friends. It's not a major crutch in this argument but it is something that should considered when artists lose next to nothing from it and gain more.
 

Random9

Registered Member
New what? Internets? You're not stealing 'from the internet' as you claim. Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it was supposed to be or that it's not harming anyone. If you wrote a song and began selling it and then saw it on the internet being downloaded 1,000 times while your sales peak at about 10 copies, you'd probably be mad about the lost income but as I had said, at the same time it's a good thing for artists because they get exposure (but I do no think it entirely makes up for the pirating).

I have no idea what you're saying here. Can you try to explain this better?
what i wanted to say is that when you steal something physical like food then there is obvious harm to the one you steal from,however when you steal something less physical like content on the internet there is no damage done by the theft but there only might be damage done by you not buying because you already have it(by stealing it).

Okay, great. Now what? Of course there are artists that oppose it but like I said I don't think it's as high as people think thanks to how much they get gouged in record sales.
maybe,i'm not sure.

You realize you just disproved the first part of your sentence, right?
i just wanted to make sure we agree by what means steam reduces piracy.
How much advertising do pirates really accomplish? I mean, if I pirate a song and decide I like a band, that would mostly just mean I'll pirate even more from them.
i can give you an actual example of that.

a few years ago a friend of mine was member in a forum dedicated to playing a cracked version of counter strike,after about 4 months some members got bored and left and pretty much everyone who stayed(which was about half of the people) bought a legit copy of counter strike,with some even buying the orange box mainly due to it containing counter-strike.

i've also heard similar things about modern warfare.
 

KSpiceFantastic

Haters gonna hate.
Well to be honest, I think that argument is stupid and invalid. Pirates probably do have the money, but they are choosing not to spend it. It is as simple as that. I really do not think you can make any more of a point than that.

And about the pirates advertising? That really doesn't make any sense. They are downloading something and are making people more aware of it, but that really is not advertising by definition.
 

Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
Well to be honest, I think that argument is stupid and invalid. Pirates probably do have the money, but they are choosing not to spend it. It is as simple as that. I really do not think you can make any more of a point than that.
You're a gamer, right? PC? Maybe not, but I think you should look into the steps it takes to play a lot of modern games, especially anything made by EA. The amount of security software is insane. Put it to you this way, some companies are like this:

People are stealing from a local supermarket and cops are having a hard time finding the perpetrators. The supermarket's management team is concerned about sales so they start enforcing heftier security policies. Everyone who enters must be screened first by personal information which can take a few minutes. Next, you have to wear a little camera around your neck at all times and it weighs forty pounds. But wait, before you get into the actual store, now you have to upgrade the camera which will take another few minutes. Oh, shit, the camera isn't working, time to get a new one! Upgrading now . . . alright, into the supermarket you go- oh and you have to wear a vest advertising the supermarket's new products and services, another five pounds.

Ah, now you've finally made it into the market to get your shopping down. You get to the bread and as you reach for it, one of the several dozen armed security guards patrolling the store steps in front of you and grabs you by the collar. He inspects the camera you're wearing for a few minutes before letting you go and walking away. Comforting.

All of this over a few thefts that they haven't been able to control.

And about the pirates advertising? That really doesn't make any sense. They are downloading something and are making people more aware of it, but that really is not advertising by definition.
By definition, that is advertising.

Word of mouth is an advertising tactic that is difficult to accomplish but it falls into that realm. The profits from it are also quit low but once word of mouth spreads then your product (be it music, a cleaning tool, etc.) will catch fire. Assuming it's not garbage.
 
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