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PayPal no longer opening office in North Carolina

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
Sure he is. He's excluding the entire state of North Carolina. The point is he's making the decision to lose money and refuse business based on his world view. The baker or pizza parlor is denied that exact same freedom. But he's "walking the walk" by discriminating where he provides his service, while the baker is a bigot for doing the same thing.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Sure he is. He's excluding the entire state of North Carolina. The point is he's making the decision to lose money and refuse business based on his world view. The baker or pizza parlor is denied that exact same freedom. But he's "walking the walk" by discriminating where he provides his service, while the baker is a bigot for doing the same thing.
By definition, musicians must choose the venues where they perform. Anyone residing in NC is still free to attend any of The Boss concerts at other venues. He has chosen not to perform at a certain geographic location, not to deny any specific group of people the right to see his show.

Are you implying that all musicians must perform at every venue in America or else they're discriminating?
 

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
What definition are you referring to? The definition of what?

Of course they're discriminating. By canceling a show in North Carolina he's punishing the owner of the venue and is discriminating against North Carolina. Don't get me wrong, I don't care, he can discriminate against North Carolina all he wants, more power to him, but he's discriminating based on his world view. Not everyone has that freedom, obviously.
 

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
And I get it, he's not standing outside and monitoring who's coming in and out of the venue, and letting in certain people while excluding others, but that's not the point. The point is he has the economic freedom to make choices based on his world view. Which more power to him, it's just not all fair it seems.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
NC attorney general has also denounced the law.
 

Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
V.I.P.
I disagree. If I buy a ticket to a Bruce Springsteen concert, he's doing business with me. In exchange for my money, I get to see him in concert. If he bails because I'm in North Carolina, he's choosing who he's doing business with. Granted it's not exactly analogous, but it's still choosing who you're doing business with.

I should add, a bakery moving to say Texas doesn't solve the problem. There are still gay marriages in Texas, regardless of how most Texans feel. So unlike Bruce Springsteen, the bakery doesn't get a choice.
But he's not choosing who he's doing business with. He's choosing where he's doing business, and all of the people who got their tickets refunded are still welcome to attend any of his concerts. On the other hand, a bakery refusing service to LGBT couples is excluding a specific group of people, and therefore the two scenarios are completely different.

If you think bakeries and businesses in general should have the freedom to choose who they do business with for religious reasons or whatever else, that's fine. But if we're going to discuss equality, then there needs to be a 1:1 comparison.

Springsteen cancelling a concert in protest of a North Carolina law is comparable to Chick-fil-A hypothetically protesting abortion by shutting down all of their restaurants in states with lenient abortion laws. And there's no laws stopping them from doing so if they wish, right? So isn't that equality?

Conversely, if a bakery is allowed to refuse to do business with LGBT couples or whatever, then equality could be Springsteen refusing entry to his concerts to people who are anti-LGBT rights.
 

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
I know it's not exactly the same thing. I said that would be like him monitoring the gate as to who comes in or not. And bakers and that pizza parlor aren't refusing to do business with LGBT couples, they are refusing to do weddings. You can still go into the pizza shop and eat all you want. It's also impossible to compare because Springsteen doesn't have a set business you can just walk into.

Just like this issue is much bigger than "men go into a woman's bathroom and women go into a woman's bathroom" the issue is much bigger than "they hate transgendered and gays and are discriminating against them". If a man has an issue with another man going into the same bathroom as his wife and daughters his opinion should be respected and he shouldn't be labeled a bigot or a hater, or anything else (I'm not saying anyone here said that, I'm addressing why Springsteen cancelled his show).

In the end I find Springsteen intolerant. He's unable to tolerate views that differ from his. He is excluding an entire state because of that intolerance (I think this makes him a whiny little bitch but that's neither here nor there). However, my point is about economic freedom. As a lawyer I have the right to deny representation to whomever I please and can refuse to represent a gay or transgendered for any reason I wish. Springsteen has the economic freedom to doing business in North Carolina if he wishes. Economic freedom should apply across the board.

Let me ask this. Let's say I'm a multi millionaire. I was instrumental in getting this law in NC passed and I live there. Let's say I have a son or daughter who is a huge Springsteen fan and I want to hire him to play at my child's wedding. Can he refuse?
 

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
Let me add, a baker or a pizza parlor isn't allowed to deny service to an LGBT couple, the argument is them denying doing a wedding. But I agree, they should be allowed to deny and Springsteen can deny doing the concert. I 100% support his right to cancel the con
 

Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
V.I.P.
Let me ask this. Let's say I'm a multi millionaire. I was instrumental in getting this law in NC passed and I live there. Let's say I have a son or daughter who is a huge Springsteen fan and I want to hire him to play at my child's wedding. Can he refuse?
I'd say it would depend on whether or not he plays at private events as a regular part of his business. I mean, if that's not something he normally offers, then obviously he could refuse.

But if he's available for hire to anyone willing to pay his asking price, then I don't know. I'm inclined to say no, he can't refuse. It's a complicated issue though, and where do you draw the line? If a bakery can refuse to cater a gay wedding, why can't they refuse to bake the cake in the first place? And if they can refuse to bake the cake, why can't any business refuse service to anyone for any reason they choose? I think that's a dangerous path to go down for obvious reasons.
 

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
I agree with you, doing weddings is not what he does, he can refuse. However, doing weddings is not what Memories Pizza does either, and in response to hypothetical about catering a gay wedding, they were harassed, there were death threats, and threats to burn down their business.

I agree, it's a tough situation, and him cancelling a concert isn't the same as a baker who does do weddings refusing to do a gay wedding. He isn't stopping someone who supports the NC law from going to his concerts. I just think people need to at least respect each others opinions and not resort to cancelling shows, or things of that matter. I mean, there's a movement for the NBA to move the All-Star game next February in North Carolina. It's just so bothersome to me when people preach tolerance but don't show any of it themselves.
 
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