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Oxymorons that coexist.

Mickiel

Registered Member
You ever wonder why Athiest are attracted to a Religous board? You ever wonder why Christians are attracted to an Athiest board? Its really because they need each other to be relevant. In a Jealous Juxtaposition, they are locked into a battle of need, trying to convince each other that they don't need each other, and yet they can't leave each other alone. Its worse than competition, its a symboint relationship between rivals that hate each other and need each other.

Its one of the most silly relationships I have ever observed. But it is a relationship. The Athiest come to a religous section on a discussion board, and try to control it. They try to run off the religous people, but for what? So that they can discuss religion amoungst themselves. Christians go to Athiest boards on an attack mission, but for what? To hopefully convert the Athiest to become like " Them." Or they go there to " Spread their Gospel message".

You take away the prey, the hunter is unhappy and meaningless. You remove the oppisition, then the war is over, and the soldiger no longer is needed.

Peace.
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Atheist exist to claim that God does not exist, Christians exist to claim that only they will exist when all this is over. Both are extremes in my view, and both are dependant on each other, though they care not to admit as such. A very unique symbiosis where two different organisms must live with each other. One who argues, must have another to argue with. One who loves to talk, needs someone to listen to them. One who just has to vent, needs someone to vent to. The taker needs someone to take from, and selfishness wouldnot exist without the presence of people to be selfish toward. The Atheist needs the Christian, just like the Christian needs the Atheist. There would be no discuss, without someone or something to be discusted in.

Human nature is never satisfied without the sacrifice being aimed at someonelse. Your beliefs must live, and other beliefs must die. You are right and the other is wrong. An endless circle of human thinking that is warped in self gradification and self pacification. Pacification of self is the foundation of all inner beliefs, the world according to you.
 
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Merc

Problematic Shitlord
V.I.P.
They aren't oxymorons, they're opposites but not even too extreme in their opposition.


Atheists flock to Christian forums because they think they're silly and enjoy laughing at their babbling.
Christians flock to atheist forums because they think they're silly and enjoy laughing at their babbling.


See the similarity? Christians are just as bad as atheists when it comes to faith debates.
 

Corona

Registered Member
I suspect that there is more than one motivation for all religious/athiest forumgoers. Perhaps Christians think they need to save the athiests, perhaps athiest think they need to enlighten the christians, who knows.
 

soot

Registered Member
I don't think a civil (or even uncivil) discussion of ideas between two ideologically opposed parties constitutes dependence, need, or hate.

I agree that Atheists and Christians enjoy debating, but I don't see any of the insidiousness in that debate that you seem to imply is inherent and even necessary.

Neither do Christianity and Atheism need each other to be relevant.

You make a fairly mundane observation and then extrapolate from that observation all manner of silliness.

This thread is illogical and ignorant. Not your best work by a long shot.

Move it along folks – nothing to see here.
 

Mickiel

Registered Member
A Symbiosis is the state of two different organism living in close relationship, each benefitting from the close relationship, this is how the Atheist- Christian relationship strikes me. In my observation, I am impressed by the constant denial of the two, of this relationship, and I expect no differing response here to my observation. Like polar oppisites, yet they attract. Like night and day, they deny each other, but combined they make the 24 hour period.

Much in life is like this, so simular to this paradox. One race or culture hates another, but both are part of the same humanity, just differing colors of skin. Democrats and Republicans, males and females, homosexual and hetersexual, bueatiful and ugly, strong and weak, all fighting and bickering with each other in an ever spiraling vortex with no end in sight.

Aittitudes are being created and fueled by these Oxymorons, a strong scarcastic mentality that builds and feeds itself is being easily accepted as the norm. Humans are becomming Symbionts, existing in a combined state of Good and Evil, and enjoying the mixture. A nuclear volitile mixture, like oil and water, they are fusing together into their minds both hate and love. Not able to no longer seperate things, they " Fall into an attraction with their Jailer." Double minded, they now need their enemy to survive and have strength. Motivation comes from the thing that is the object of hatred. Inspiration is generated by what is dispised.

This is because the Whole Head is sick, and the Heart Faint, from the sole of the foot to the Head, there is no soundness in it. Sugar is in the Gas, salt is in the pepper, tears are flowing into the Joy, winter now rules the Spring and summer invades the fall. And people no longer care, confusion has become the norm.
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There is an old french saying;" Viva La Differance", love the difference. Strange how humanity is gravitating toward hateing the difference, and taking to the hate like fish to water. Unity is no longer natural, its unatural.

I recall the senario of a person saving a drowning person. They reach to the person in the water to pull them out. They grab what they can, but could only reach the hair. They pull the drowning person out of the water by their hair. The drowning person is enraged and upset, screaming at the one who performed the lifeguard act of concern. " Whats wrong with you, why did you drag me out by my hair?" That hurt me! The concerned activist only responds;" I'm sorry to have hurt you, I wanted to save your Life."

Such is the mentality the world seems to enjoy and gravitate toward. Anger at its worse, and scracasm becomming the communication of the day. Boo's and Hiss, snicker and sneer, cynicism and " Spinning", all mixed into the words that used to be offered in Peace. Countries come together at the international table, with selfishness as their agenda;" What can you do for me!" Divorce rates at all time highs and Love at all time lows, people are finding it hard to mix together. Oxymorons having a hard time co-existing. What is beneath all of this?
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The Atheist and the Christian seem to spend their lives " Defending their belief", as if ,to put it in simple terms, they are locked in a battle of good and evil, each thinking they represent the good of humanity. A far assumption by both groups. No thought of becomming partners in humanitys search for meaning, instead we much watch a fight. When humanity is reduced to having to learn from a fight, then the learning curve is set by War. When the learning curve is set by War, is anyone really winning? Then there must be suffering in order for results to be availible for those who do not like War, but like learning.

Years of War result in the Aittitude of War, and the fighting is passed down from generation to generation. Like an inbred mentality, people become accoustomed to now even " Thinking War", the mental stance of competition is now the norm. The natural inclination is to fight for your belief, to mame and hurt those who oppose you. As I look at the responses to this post, some are just naturally inclinded to be scarcastic and insulting, mean and ugly, Aittitudes already inclinded to fight and dispute, disrupt and attack. Without asking themselves why they do this, it just seems natural for them to do it. You ever wonder why this is?
 
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soot

Registered Member
A Symbiosis is the state of two different organism living in close relationship, each benefitting from the close relationship, this is how the Atheist- Christian relationship strikes me. In my observation, I am impressed by the constant denial of the two, of this relationship, and I expect no differing response here to my observation.
Define the relationship and the manner in which you believe it is symbiotic.

I don't think it exists at all as a matter of necessity or causation.

At best I would define the relationship as synergistic, rather than symbiotic.

Humans are becomming Symbionts, existing in a combined state of Good and Evil, and enjoying the mixture.
You propose that this is a recent development? That human history hasn't demonsrtated similar characteristics into antiquity?

There is an old french saying;" Viva La Differance", love the difference. Strange how humanity is gravitating toward hateing the difference, and taking to the hate like fish to water. Unity is no longer natural, its unatural.
Again, you propose this is a recent development?

At what point in human history are you aware of some natural sense of unity?

No thought of becomming partners in humanitys search for meaning, instead we much watch a fight.
Assuming that there is some "meaning" to be found, why are you so sure that a particular ideological difference is in some way an impediment to finding this "meaning"?

You would have to define the "meaning" as something incompatible with ideological difference in order for this to make any sense. And if you define the meaning then as a consequence you presume to already know the meaning, in which case the search is no longer necessary.

Maybe the "meaning" is for humanity to constantly be at odds over matters of ideological difference.

As I look at the responses to this post, some are just naturally inclinded to be scarcastic and insulting, mean and ugly, Aittitudes already inclinded to fight and dispute, disrupt and attack. Without asking themselves why they do this, it just seems natural for them to do it. You ever wonder why this is?
I don't see anything ugly. Just an honest assessment of ideas and an honest disagreement with and criticisim thereof.

That's the way a discussion should be.

So far you haven't provided any information that proves, or in any way coroberates, any of your conclusions. You're making statements that have no basis in reality. At least so far as I can see. And you're not offering any examples from reality that would sway the opinion of someone who isn't already inclined to agree with the nonsense you've posted.

You write these long, flowery diatribes that offer nothing of substance. You assume a historical precedent for modernity that doesn't in any way correspond with our modern understanding of history. You make assumptions about high falutin' philosophical ideals without providing any evidence, let alone proof, that your conclusions are based on anything more than biased and arrogant self interest.

What do you really expect?
 

Mickiel

Registered Member
soot;342014 [COLOR=#555a5f said:
This thread is illogical and ignorant. Not your best work by a long shot.[/COLOR]

Move it along folks – nothing to see here.


If you are encouraging others to not deal with this post, then why are you now trying to speak with me? If you don't want others to comment further on it, then why are you doing, what you have requested others not to do? Why should I respond to you, when you have asked others not to respond to me? You can't have it both ways. If there is nothing here to see, then you need to set that example by staying away yourself. But yet you continue to comment on it.

And this is an example of what I mean by oxymoronic Aittitudes, people mixing themselves up and trying to mix oil with water. You don't see anything of value in this post, but you dive into it anyway. And I am going to show why people are doing this.
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If I may use Soot as an example of the Symbiosis of the Oxymoronic inate duality that we have surcome to over the years. I recall once being told that we all have two dogs inside of us, each fighting for dominance, and the stronger one is who will win its influence over us. It became the stronger one because it was the one that we fed the most. Our inner desires are no different, the predominant aittitudes and beliefs that we hold to, are the ones we feed the most inside of us.

Notice Soots aggressive way of following my Post, dogging me all along the way. A strong dislike for my views, he must extradite them from this board. Not knowing if he can do as such, he then seeks to turn others away from reading the Post, but then, like a double minded man, he starts trying to communicate we me himself. Notice the obvious contridiction, the " Split - Mind", or you can say " Two Many Minds."

And this is the part of human nature that seems to dominate humanity more and more. It creates " Split Personalitys", over aggressiveness, lack of concentration, rudeness, searing Sarcasm, serious selfishness and vengeful dialect. I once knew a man who became so jealous of a woman, he told her he would kill her. He said to her;" If I can't have you, then nobodyelse is going to have you either." I asked him why he told her that, and he told me because he Loves her. He Loves her, but feels like Killing her because she does not want him. Extreme paradox, over the edge emotions of both Love and Hate living in a symbiosis in the same mind.

And I want to go into that. Peace.
 
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soot

Registered Member
Notice Soots aggressive way of following my Post, dogging me all along the way. A strong dislike for my views, he must extradite them from this board.
I'm not trying to "eradicate your views", I'm not even telling you that I "dislike" them.

I'm telling you that I disagree with your views and that you have offered no information of any substance to corroberate your views.

Not knowing if he can do as such, he then seeks to turn others away from reading the Post, but then, like a double minded man, he starts trying to communicate we me himself. Notice the obvious contridiction, the " Split - Mind", or you can say " Two Many Minds."
The phrase, "Move it along folks. Nothing to see here.", is a turn of a phrase, a figure of speech, if you will.

I am not implying that other people shouldn't read your post. And even if I were I doubt anyone would listen to me, or at least I hope they wouldn't.

What I was implying was that the information you offered wasn't really worth serious consideration because it's completly devoid of any factual material. And I stand by that despite my continued correspondence with you.

This is a public forum for the discussion of ideas. You continue to respond, I continue to respond. Discussion.

That's not "dogging" you, although considering the lack of substance in the conjecture you presume to offer as fact I can see why you would want to play the victim and divert attention from you lack of coherant thought and unto the fact that you're being "attacked" by a big old meanie like me.

Stop defending yourself and start defending you ideas.

Not by trying to make a spectacle out of my opposition to them, but by providing real information to support them.

And this is the part of human nature that seems to dominate humanity more and more.
Again, prove that this is happening "more and more" in recent times.

I propose that conflict and discord have been human traits since the very dawn of recorded history. I think historical records bear that out.

I don't think there's anything to support the idea that mankind is becoming more aggressive, more sarcastic, more vengeful, or more anything else.

If you have some information that proves your thesis then provide it.

So far all I see is personal opinion.

Personal opinion based on the fact that you've recently started discussing your half-baked ideas with people on the Internet and they're not being met with the widespread approval and acceptance you might like.

Therefore, you conclude that humanity is becoming more hostile, more sarcastic, more this, more that.

In reality all that's happened is that you've recieved more exposure to a humanity that hasn't changed a wit in the last 6000 years.

Furthermore, I don't see the symbiotic link between Atheism and Christianity that you propose in your original post. I'd like to see you defende that proposition too.

In fact, I'd like to see you defend something other than yourself.

Seems to me that you're the one making personal conflict out of a difference of opinion concerning ideas.

Maybe that's why you see the world the way you do - because you can't get past a simple difference of opinion without somehow turning it into an unnecessary and pointless personal battle.
 

Mickiel

Registered Member
I'm not trying to "eradicate your views", I'm not even telling you that I "dislike" them.

I'm telling you that I disagree with your views and that you have offered no information of any substance to corroberate your views.


What I was implying was that the information you offered wasn't really worth serious consideration because it's completly devoid of any factual material. And I stand by that despite my continued correspondence with you.




You know you seem to need proof of things, which I am not against, but I am not posting to " Prove anything", I am posting my view of things, and feel no need to " Prove or convince anything." I am not on that " Convince people trip", I don't care what people believe, or what you believe. I am not posting to gain " Converts to my Views", I am simply stateing my views. I don't care who considers them or who does not. And I have repeatedly stated this.

I am not here to convert and convince, thats not my thing. I am already convinced of the paradox that exist in humanity, and you can research any of the avialible stats on War and see this paradox. War is brutal and ugly, but yet it remains central to human history and change. The Paradox is inexplicable to my view of reality, and to me it reveals something deeply disturbing in the human nature of mankind. There has always been wars in our history, but they are becomming more frequent, more deadly, more violent and more unreasonable. And there is a reason for this, which I think is best explained by examining human nature itself. Its a sure sign to ME that human nature is growing more deadly and more violent.

Now I can quote stats from the recent WHO, ( World Health Organization) report on World Crime that came out in Geneva, if one is satisfied by factual data. More than 1.6 million people are killed every year, a steady increase since data has been recorded. On an average, 1,424 people are killed in the world everyday. 35 are killed every hour, and before you finish reading this, at least 1 to 3 people will have been killed violently. In the avialible data, 191 million people have been killed so far in the 20th century, surpassing any previous century that we have avialible data, and even this has risen significantly since this report in 2002.

20% of the Women in the World are abused. 10 % of the Children are being abused. 50% of Women who are killed, are murdered by their former husbands or boyfriends. In some countries its as high as 70%. 6 and growing to 12% of Seniors are being abused. And I don't want to dramatize this " Shortened list of data", the list is online for any to view. England has the highest crime rate in the world, a place where respect and dignity has been an ingrained part of a culture. For me to break down these stats into individual countries, would present days and pages of frigthening stats, and America is no different, but we have improved some.

The US crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants went from 1,887.2 in 1960 to 5,897.7 in 1991, a 313% increase. 1991 was a rough year for America, we have leveled off to 3,900 according to data from 2006.

These things reflect something that is going on " Inside of humanity", and I want to go into that, because it intrest me more than stats and data. Peace.
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But you know, I am not close minded, I can get into showing more data, but I want it made clear that I view data as a reflection or a guage of whats going on inside of a human, and I see it as more informative to deal with whats going on inside of humanity, that explains whats going on outside of a human in our societys. We are raping this earth with what is going on inside of us.

Speaking of Rape, and condensing it to just the USA, which has the highest Rape stats in all the countries that publish such stats, ( and these stats are published by CEASE) every year 683,280 women are raped. Every month 56,160 females are Raped. Each day 1,872 are Raped. 78 women are Raped in the US every hour, and just the 1 minute it takes you to read this information, another woman will have been Raped, and another Rape will be in progress, because 1.3 women are Raped every minute.

This reveals a serious problem in the mentality of many men. 83% of these women are 24 years old and under. This reveals a definte problem with Rapist and shows their mentality of taking advantage of our youth, it shows a " Predator Mentality." 1 in 7 women will be Raped by their Husbands, which reveals a problem with relationship. 84% of the men who committed these Rapes wouldnot define it as Rape. And add to this that concerning Rape itself, only 16% of them are ever reported to the Police. So if all the Rapes were to be reported, the stats would be astoundingly higher. Something is wrong with the mind of Man.
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I'll mention another set of " Reported Data" that stuns me concerning Abortion. In the US alone between 1973 - 2007, the " Reported Abortions", there were 49,523,945 abortions in the US. 73% of Americans believe that it should be legal. 55% believe it should only be legal under certain circumstances, 18% say under any circumstance. Now the stats on why women would want abortions is just as revealing. 74% of women feel that having their child would interfere with their work, school or other responsibilitys. 73% say they just couldnot afford the child. 48% claim they don't want to be a single parent. There are 100,516 abortions a month, 23,196 a week, 3,304 a day, 137 an hour, and by the time you finish this paragraph 7 children will have been aborted, there is 1 every 26 seconds.
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I was sitting here eating dinner that my girl made and it brought to mind another Symbiosis that we share with food. Our tendency to abuse even hits in the area of food that we eat and how we eat it. Its oxymorinic how we take even things that we need to do, and over do it. I wonder what in human nature makes us abuse even things that are good for us?

Well now I don't want to be without the facts of the matter, but those interested can research it on their own time and intrest. The NCHS states, and I will just limit these stats to America, that today 5.4 million Americans are Obese and another 7 million at risk. 11% of children between ages 6-17 are obese, twice the amount 10 years earlier. I try to think about just what this entails about our nature. From 1960- 1990 Obesity increased by two thirds in Adults. Obesity kills about 325,000 americans a tear, so its a very serious growing problem.

It cost the medical field and insurance companys 70 billion a year to care for the Obese. Everything they have tried to cure it has failed. Did you know that between 1977- 1995 meals eaten at fast food resturants tripled? Vending machine sales has jumped over 85% in the last 30 years. Our children get 25% of their Calories from snacks. During this same period consumption of soft drinks increased 131%. I was shocked to learn that Americans guzzle 44 gallons of soft drinks each per year. One doctor told me at work, that he believes Americans get more of their " Water intake" from everything but drinking water itself. To which I tend to agree, in times past, I am sure I got most of mine from Beer.

Last year in Atlanta Georgia, where I once lived for 20 years, citizens logged a staggering 100% increase in aggregate fatness, than the previous 7 years! Did you know that the average American walks only 5% of the time? You see whats going on in our society effects both how we think, live and eat. I have a friend who is a high school teacher, she said their stats show a significant drop in the students who take pt classes. She said the percentage has dropped steadily. Some years ago it was at 42%, now it is at 15% of kids who take gym classes.

There is something in the Pathology of humanity that is slowly reaking havoc on us, even our children.
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One sure way to guage the declining morals and ethics of humanity is how we are treating our children, no matter any who doubt what I am saying, the avialible stats on that are pitful. Americas children are under siege everyday. From the Justice Dept. Data; Children are the most victimized segment of our Population. 1 in 5 Girls and 1 in 10 boys will be victimized in some way before they reach adulthood. As of Dec.1, 2006 there are 593,000 registered sex offenders in the US. 100,000 of them are non compliant with legal requirements. 2/3rds of victims of reported sexual abuse are children, 1 out of every 3 of them are under 12 years old.

In 34 states Adults who entice children for sex via the internet spend less than 1 year in jail. ECPAT international estimates there are over 100,000 child porn websites. In 95 of the 186 member nations of Interpol, there are no child porn laws.

In one case I looked at today, at the time of their arrest, 2 husband wife couples who were child porn entreprenuers had over 70,000 customers paying $30.00 each a month to access their site. 39% of their images were of children younger than 6 years old, 18% were younger than 3. This is evidence of both perversion and sickness, I only wish the Vatican made avialible their Data on how many of their Priest have molested young boys. They have spent millions on settling just law suits in America.

The statements I have made on the deteriation of the human characther is not just my opinon, I mean I can get into facts, the data is mostly avialible, the heart of humanity is hurting and it is sick, what is surprizing is that many have their head stuck in the sand instead of realizing it.
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I wanted to get away from this factual data and move back into personal observation , and I think its good to have both. When you watch a fight, you are seeing two different aittitudes confronting each other. In the battle between Atheist and Christians, there is much to learn about human nature, as you observe them go at each other. Some are just more agressive than others. They battle with their minds and their mouths. What is comming out of their mouths, reveals whats in their hearts. And most use their mouths, instead of their minds, as their weapon of choice.

The Christians claim Love as their motivation, but are really irritated with the Atheist. The Atheist claim that reason is their motivation, but are really irritated with the Christians. Irritation is most often the impetus that comes out of the conversations and expresses itself. An annoyance that shows the sensitivity that is really involved here. A sensitivity that reminds me of relationship, albeit a bad relationship, even still a type of relationship. Conversation being acted upon by stimuli, to inflame each other, which excites each other, yet never actually suspecting that their is a relationship. That is because relationship is " Normally " thought of as positive union, but union is union, even if the ties that bond are negative. And I want to go into this most unusual union.
 
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