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Objective Morality

M

Mecha

Guest
By Ockham's Razor, a god creating humans is irrational. However, the existance of a god is not (there is no alternate explanation for what created the matter and energy of the universe, therfore a supernatural entity may still be used
... God spontaneously coming into being or always existing and then creating matter+energy is less following Ockam's Razor than positing matter/energy came into being on its own or always existed.

And that is ignoring all the problems with the Godstuff itself, which puts favor on naturalism by itself.

I can't stand it when people pervert Ockam's Razor in such a fashion. Jeez. </pet peeve>

~Mecha
 

SenatorB

J.S.P.S
God, by definition, has always existed. Therefore, if God is to be believed as existing, it is a given that there is God... so God creating matter is just as likely as God existing yet matter appearching spontaneously. In other words, if God exists, God can exist through Ockham's razor... whereas if God does not exist, Ockham's Razor prohibit's God from existing.
 

Mare Tranquillity

Elite Intellectual
While discussing God's existence or non-existence you might find Michael Talbot's book THE HOLOGRAPHIC UNIVERSE an interesting read. Two scientists, David Bohm and Karl Pribram, one a physicist and one a brain researcher working independently from each other both arrived at the same conclusion though by very different routes: the "real" world that we experience is a holographic construct arising from a deeper level of reality, and our brains are the tool by which we are able to interact with this holographically constructed "reality". Written for the lay audience, but technical enough to give anyone a starting place to research further. Paperback copies are available for about $10 from Amazon.
 

SenatorB

J.S.P.S
I don't know... I'm just pulling stuff out of my ass (you'd maybe be surprised how much I do that lol)... it makes sense to me though, so which parts do you not understand and maybe I can explain it better.
 

Mad_Michael

Registered Member
SenatorB said:
I don't know... I'm just pulling stuff out of my ass (you'd maybe be surprised how much I do that lol)... it makes sense to me though, so which parts do you not understand and maybe I can explain it better.
I did follow the statement in reference above, and while it is rather torturous, it does 'logically' follow.

However, I have one objection regarding the last bit about Ockham's Razor and what it can and cannot do. Ockham's Razor CANNOT prevent God from existing. Ockham's Razor can really only be used to ascertain the rationality of human belief in a given proposition (such as 'God exists').

In other words, human logic applies to human minds. Human logic itself cannot effect the physical realm.
 

SenatorB

J.S.P.S
However, I have one objection regarding the last bit about Ockham's Razor and what it can and cannot do. Ockham's Razor CANNOT prevent God from existing. Ockham's Razor can really only be used to ascertain the rationality of human belief in a given proposition (such as 'God exists').
Fair enough... I suppose I should have said "logically believed in" instead of "exist" or something. Unless, unbeknownst to all of us, Ockham's Razor is the weapon of the devil, and it ACTUALLY CAN PREVENT GOD'S EXISTENCE! lol
 

breathilizer

Resident Ass-Kisser
It is my opinion that morality can be boiled down to a few basic principles. Some or all of these principles include personal freedom and personal harm.

I'd like to think that, in a perfect world, law prohibiting actions would only exist as a result of evidence demonstrating that such acts are harmful to parties who do not consent to being harmed.

Actions should be considered moral until proven immoral.
 
D

danielpalos

Guest
Does anyone disagree with the premis that; if God exists for those who believe, it must be subjective since we currently lack sufficient knowledge to confirm God's existence objectively.
 
I

IntheNet

Guest
danielpalos said:
it must be subjective since we currently lack sufficient knowledge to confirm God's existence objectively.
...novice theological reasoning...

The natural order is far too precise; disorder would surely result in so many instances of nature. Their lack assures a Prime Mover: a God. I suggest you consult The Summa Theologica post haste...
 
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