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Obama's Comments RE: Islamic Cultural Center near Ground Zero

Daemonic

Registered Member
Noone is arguing they can't practice their religion.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

I disagree, would restricting a building based on religion not be "prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
 

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

I disagree, would restricting a building based on religion not be "prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
Nope. They can practice it all they want. And noone is arguing building there is illegal, they're asking that it be built somewhere else.
 

Bananas

Endangered Species
Politically, he basically shot himself in the foot by commenting. Where are his advisers? Hillary was smart enough to avoid commenting. It wouldn't matter if he said for or against, it's too divisive of a topic to comment on for a politician trying to win votes for his party.
He did not have to say anything but he did. That in my books deserves a little respect even if you do or do not agree with what was said, to go public on a sensitive issue and stand defiant to the unpopular criticism that it would receive despite not having too. I feel this shows Obama is not just about popularity ratings and will happily take a political bullet(not shoot himself in the foot) to show he is a man with principles. Two years on and Obama is starting to show signs of a good* President.


*Good does not mean popular or agreeable. It means he knows how to do his job, a job you don't learn from apprenticeships, college degrees or even by working up the ladder. The only way to learn how to be President is is from having the experience of being President. I think he is learning that you do not tell, demand, push or even ask congress, statesmen, governors or all or any of the American people what to do, instead you give them the principles you expect them to act towards and leave them to act on it.
 
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Zappa

Registered Member
He did not have to say anything but he did. That in my books deserves a little respect even if you do or do not agree with what was said, to go public on a sensitive issue and stand defiant to the unpopular criticism that it would receive despite not having too. I feel this shows Obama is not just about popularity ratings and will happily take a political bullet(not shoot himself in the foot) to show he is a man with principles. Two years on and Obama is starting to show signs of a good* President.


*Good does not mean popular or agreeable. It means he knows how to do his job, a job you don't learn from apprenticeships, college degrees or even by working up the ladder. The only way to learn how to be President is is from having the experience of being President. I think he is learning that you do not tell, demand, push or even ask congress, statesmen, governors or all or any of the American people what to do, instead you give them the principles you expect them to act towards and leave them to act on it.
Saying what you believe and all that is great in concept. But in his position, saying stuff isn't going to change America, keeping your party in control of Congress will. What Obama said is damaging to his party with the mid-term elections coming up, and therefore may negatively impact his agenda for the rest of his term.
 
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Bananas

Endangered Species
Zappa; said:
But in his position, saying stuff isn't going to change America
His position...as in the position of President! When you're in that position every word has an influence.

Zappa; said:
......keeping your party in control of Congress will.
It is not the Presidents job to directly control congress. It is his job to lay down the expectations of a nation and it is the job of congress to try and meet them.

Zappa; said:
What Obama said is damaging to his party with the mid-term elections coming up, and therefore may negatively impact his agenda for the rest of his term.
Why was what he said damaging to his party?... and why would his party be more important than the nation? ...would that make a good President?
 

Ilus_Unistus

Registered Member
The US government isn't sponsoring the construction.



NOW can I use the "Islamophobe" word without getting warned and censored? Oh can I please please please?

Because this post is literally the definition of Islamophobia. You're categorizing 1.4 billion people as violent or supporters of violence with no basis in reality.



As for the president's speech, once again a media shit storm has erupted because he tried to throw in a little nuance in the age of the 5 second sound bite.

First Obama said that the cultural center "should be allowed" to be built. Of course it should. It's the legal right of anyone to do this sort of thing.

Then he said "I won't comment on if it should be built." This isn't back pedaling. He was saying he will not get into a debate on whether it's a good idea for a mosque to be built there, regardless of legal right. Obama is correct again, as it isn't his place to make such a comment and would only further fuel this fake controversy.

Just for you, a collection of my proof. The following are direct quotes from the Koran.

2:190-193
"Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
"Fight in the cause of God"
"slay them whenever ye catch them."
"And fight them on until there prevail justice and faith in God."

2:216-217
Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing that is good for you and that ye may love."

5:51
"Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them."

9:29
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth of the people of the Book of the Jews and the Christians until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued."


There is about 1000 more I could add to this about "fighting" or "slaying" Jews, Christians, infidels whatever. But I feel now you are saying this with your eyes covered... "LA LA LA I CANT SEE THIS, LA LA LA I CANT SEE THIS!"
 
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dDave

Well-Known Member
V.I.P.
What gets me on this is how Obama has clearly stated that the Constitution is flawed (at least he thinks so), has therefore ignored the constitution, and now is using the Constitution to defend their "right" to build a mosque near ground zero.

Obviously nobody is arguing that they lack the right to but it's still a bad decision regardless of whether or not it's allowed. Would you call your wife fat even if it were true? You most certainly could, it'd be a terrible decision though.

Personally I don't think Obama is a Christian, anybody that thinks he is is misled.
------
Just for you, a collection of my proof. The following are direct quotes from the Koran.

2:190-193
"Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
"Fight in the cause of God"
"slay them whenever ye catch them."
"And fight them on until there prevail justice and faith in God."

2:216-217
Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing that is good for you and that ye may love."

5:51
"Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them."

9:29
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth of the people of the Book of the Jews and the Christians until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued."


There is about 1000 more I could add to this about "fighting" Jews, Christians, infidels whatever. But I feel now you are saying this with your eyes covered... "LA LA LA I CANT SEE THIS, LA LA LA I CANT SEE THIS!"
Thank You!

Somebody finally said it, I myself don't know much about the book of Islam but very clearly this sheds some light on the truth. Usually you just can't use your proof second hand, you need to read it for yourself to really get it.
 
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Daemonic

Registered Member
Just for you, a collection of my proof. The following are direct quotes from the Koran.

2:190-193
"Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
"Fight in the cause of God"
"slay them whenever ye catch them."
"And fight them on until there prevail justice and faith in God."

2:216-217
Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing that is good for you and that ye may love."

5:51
"Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them."

9:29
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth of the people of the Book of the Jews and the Christians until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued."


There is about 1000 more I could add to this about "fighting" or "slaying" Jews, Christians, infidels whatever. But I feel now you are saying this with your eyes covered... "LA LA LA I CANT SEE THIS, LA LA LA I CANT SEE THIS!"
You could do the same thing with any abrahamic religion if you want to pick them apart.....

There are parts of the bible that say to kill non-believers, instructions on how slaves should be treated, orders to kill women that aren't virgins on their wedding day, etc.....

Deuteronomy 22 13-21

13 If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity," 15 then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. 16 The girl's father will say to the elders, "I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity." Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver [b] and give them to the girl's father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives. 20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.




Deuteronomy 17 2-5

2If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.



Leviticus 25 44-46



44 " 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
 
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