Obama on teacher pay

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by Mirage, Mar 12, 2009.

  1. Mirage

    Mirage Administrator Staff Member V.I.P.

    Obama is pushing for paying teachers based off of student performance:

    Obama's merit pay idea gets skeptical eye - Milford, MA - The Milford Daily News

    WHAT!!!!!!! :-o :lol:

    One of the worst ideas so far. Obviously the goal is to pay the teachers who are able to teach their students well, BUT, a few things about this bug me:

    1. Teachers would be way more inclined to offer extra credit and even be extra lenient on bad students. After all, by passing out higher grades they'd be literally writing their own paycheck.

    2. It screws over the honest teachers who just get stuck with really bad students or straight up troublemakers. You can be the best teacher in the world and there are some kids that just don't care to be in school. Why should you get paid less because of that?

    3. Technically if students cheated it would benefit the teacher because it would appear as if his/her class was doing better than it really was. So the teacher would have little to no incentive to prevent cheating or even bother looking for it.

    Another example of change we don't need. :rant:

    Honestly, the idea is so dumb that I wonder how none of his advisors thought of the downsides. It's simply naive and stupid to think such an idea would actually be beneficial. Where did this guy come from?

    Some of the best teachers I had were very strict and failed several students. They didn't mess around and they didn't put up with BS from troublemakers either. You didn't do the homework? What? Ok, you get an F. Plain and simple. A good teacher isn't afraid to fail students. Most of the bad teachers I've had have been pansy's when it comes to giving out bad grades. I've had teachers that literally gave kids 3 and 4 chances to retake tests. These same kids would often times cheat on tests right in front of the teacher and she didn't care. Oh but their grades will be higher so I suppose we should give that teacher a raise.

    It's ludicrous.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2009

  2. Tucker

    Tucker Lion Rampant

    Damned crazy socialist...
     
  3. Mirage

    Mirage Administrator Staff Member V.I.P.

    I never said I agreed with McCain on that now did I? ;)

    If people went into teaching because they wanted to get rich then they are probably in the wrong profession. A lot of teachers can make more if they were to go get a job in their area of expertise. Supply and demand should be fine in deciding what teacher's should make. As long as there are enough people becoming teachers each year then they are obviously being paid enough. If we end up with a teacher shortage then their pay should go up. There's no reason to pay teachers huge amounts of money simply "because". Nobody is making them choose that profession.

    When you decide what career path you want to take, generally you will look into how much you would make in it. I highly doubt that teachers are looking at their paychecks and thinking "wow this is way lower than I thought it would be". If they are then they should have done some research before becoming a teacher. If they don't like how much they make then they can quit and go do something else the same way any of us can quit our jobs and go do something else. People go back to college all the time to get a new career path.

    The schools should get budgets that they can use to pay teachers whatever they want. If they feel a teacher is really good then they should pay that teacher more. It should be up to the schools to decide this based on parents and even student recommendations.

    I mean... paying a teacher if more students pass simply won't work. They'd be automatically biased towards leniency and cutting slack to kids because in the end they get paid more. Like I said, some of the best teachers are also some of the strictest teachers.

    In the end it comes down to one simple principle. If you don't like how much a particular career pays, choose a different one. Nobody is forcing people to become teachers. And if too many teachers quit then guess what? Teacher salaries will go up to encourage more people to become teachers. That's the beauty of supply and demand. It works.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2009
  4. Wade8813

    Wade8813 Registered Member

    Did McCain elaborate on his plan? Maybe he has a method other than just student performance.
     
  5. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    Maybe a teacher should get paid more if a bell curve in the teacher's class is produced... before the grades are curved.
     
  6. Tucker

    Tucker Lion Rampant

    McCain espouses the same type of program as does the President, because the logistics of merit pay implementation are fundamentally sound and measures would be put in place to ensure that concerns such as those raised by Hybrix would not become reality.

    We're turning out college students who can barely spell. The United States is ranked shamefully poor in education as compared to other developed nations. If anyone thinks he has has a better plan than the one now being proposed for trying to turn this around, let him lay it out.
     
  7. Mirage

    Mirage Administrator Staff Member V.I.P.

    What about the plan I laid out? Let supply and demand set the teacher salaries.

    Do you really think that by paying teachers more money that kids will suddenly want to learn or that more people will want to become teachers? Kids in America play videogames, watch TV, surf the internet, etc and have found out that those things are far more fun than doing homework.

    Paying teachers more money will just leave us with higher paid teachers and the same education problems. If parents would get involved and tell their kids they can't play videogames or watch TV, etc until their grades are up then maybe we'd be seeing better grades. The fact is that a lot of the times when a kid is doing poorly in school he/she is living with a parent or parents who either aren't paying attention or aren't doing anything. The best paid teachers in the world won't be able to change that.

    (However as I said before, it might seem like kids are doing better in school because statistically it's probably safe to say that nationwide grades could go up a few percent all around just by teachers being slightly less strict in an effort to get their own paychecks to go up due to their class having better grades).
     
  8. Bananas

    Bananas Endangered Species

    Im not agreeing or disagreeing with this, I do not know enough about US schooling to comment with any conviction. But I am seeing a few flaws on both side of the fence, but having only seen one side of the arguement I can only present against that

    Is this not sugesting exactly the same thing, if a teacher is favoured they get a bonus! The only difference I see is the method you suggest is a lot more corruptable than go straight off a performance related bonus.



    Russian Roullette with the future of your country. Nice.

    Teaching is not just about money it is about bettering society. I personaly believe every incentive possible should be made to encourage this but then why bother if the money is not there.

    You have raised this point twice. But their is a problem, unless I have my wires crossed, do teachers mark their own students work? or do you have external or even multi tiered internal methods of marking? I thought it was the latter.

    So any teacher automatically bumping grades would fail once the real exams arrose as they had given the students a pretension that they were better than they realy were.

    Do you get paid less, or do you not get paid as much? There is a difference,that is what the incentive is.

    Pay bonus is an incentive; If you cant get the kids to care to be in school then you are not the "best" teacher. The incentive being get these kids in the schools and better them, if you do that we will reward you for it. (NB: we wont punish you if you dont).

    Just sweeping the lost causes under the carpet is not a method of teaching, it does not not matter how shitty the kids are or how much they hate school, your job is to teach them and better them. So here is a good reason to do so...money!
     
    Iris likes this.
  9. ysabel

    ysabel /ˈɪzəˌbɛl/ pink 5

    I want to see the merit pay plan. Does anyone have link on that (if it's already in the works)? The articles I've read so far weren't clear. Some talk about a bonus pay for teachers to motivate them, like if they're board-certified or for those who work in high-poverty or hard-to-staff schools. Others say it's just based on student scores. And another say it's bonus based on other things, with student performance just part of it.

    Either way, an incentive for teachers is a good thing. However if it's solely based on student performance, I can see flaws.
     
  10. Mirage

    Mirage Administrator Staff Member V.I.P.

    Teachers grade the students work themselves. They are also the ones who decide if a student can retake a test, take a test he/she skipped class for, etc.

    You get paid the same, or you get a raise, basically. But to most people, not getting a raise would be the same as getting paid less (than you could have made).

    Honestly though, the best teachers are not going to get kids to care about school. As I said in my last post, if the parent(s) of the kids are not getting involved and keeping up to date with their grades the kids aren't going to have a change of attitude towards school because of teachers. If your parents don't care enough to get you to care about your grades, your teacher isn't going to be able to change that.

    Most of the kids who are doing poorly in school are not doing poorly because the teachers aren't teaching them. They're doing poorly because they are not doing their homework, not studying, etc. Instead they go home and watch TV, play videogames, and surf the web all night, leaving their homework for later. Teachers can't tell these kids to turn off the electronics and do their homework.

    Is it any wonder that student grades and graduation rates are dropping as the ability to be distracted (Mysapce, Facebook, Xbox, TV, cell phones, etc) becomes more readily available and more addicting?
     

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