Politics Obama isn't a Christian

[dDave]

To be up front and honest about this, I don't believe Obama is a Christian.

Here's an article that caught my eye on the subject today...

If you declare verbally that you are Christian but then insist that Christ has called you to do any number of atrocious things, it is obvious that you are either lying, or you are adhering to some version of the faith that bears not even the vaguest similarity to anything that might be considered Biblical Christianity. That is an OK judgment for us to make, and more than OK, it’s essential. I am not saying that someone isn’t a Christian if they sin. I’m saying that someone isn’t a Christian if they believe that Jesus endorses, condones, or loves sin.

Full Article: Scott Walker Was Too Nice. It

Wanted to discuss what you guys think of what is being said here? Do you agree? Disagree? (or partially agree/disagree?)

I think there are some really strong points made here. Especially the part about someone not being a Christian if they believe that Jesus would endorse or condone sin.

 

[Sim]

Generally, I'm not a fan of calling someone "not a (true) Christian" who considers himself a Christian. Because assuming I am Christian, how do I know if I'm true to my religion and all others are wrong -- isn't it up to God to decide whether I was true to His religion? Maybe their interpretation is better than mine and I am wrong?

That said, for practical reasons, there must be some kind of definition, else the word "Christian" wouldn't make sense. For example, when someone claims he's "Christian", but at the same time says "Jesus never existed" or something to that extent, it doesn't make sense considering him a Christian, because Jesus is central for Christianity. Words have to make at least some sense. A tree doesn't become a car just because I decide calling it "car" some day.

Sectarian, extreme Christians who are so sure their interpretation of the scripture and practice is true, and all other churches and sects must be wrong, and who vocally voice that opinion and condemn other churches or sects, crack me up, though. They're extremely small minded. Their self-righteousness is naive and childish, and I'm pretty sure they'll get their pay in the end.

When you're a fair, reasonable and not blind(ed) believer, you'll be aware that you are just a fallible human, and that each of us can be wrong, even when we try to do our best according to our conscience and knowledge. We'll only get absolute certainty in the end, not on this world.

From the top of my head, I'd say whoever believes in Jesus Christ and that He died for our sins, can legitimately call himself a Christian. He may be wrong or right with his interpretation, and I may agree or disagree, but it's not up to me to call him a "false Christian" or anything like that.

Does Obama believe in Jesus Christ and that He died for our sins? I have no idea. How could I know that? Except his close confidents, nobody can truly know that. Sure, there are many politicians in America who just pay lip service to Christianity, who just pretend to believe in public to get votes, but in reality don't believe any of it. Maybe Obama is one of them.

But if that's so, I don't think his policies are any indication for that. Christianity is not a political religion, and just because someone holds conservative views, it doesn't make him a better Christian. On the contrary, I'm even pretty sure that the number of hypocrites is larger among those politicians who are loudest when it comes to public display of their religion.

A more decent believer will rather keep his religion in the background and not try to use it to win votes. Just like Jesus says you shouldn't pray loud on the streets, for that other people hear you, but in your room.

IMO.
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Oh, and I just read the article:

It's funny when disgusting, hateful partisan hacks who are abusing Christianity for their political propaganda then attack Obama for allegedly "not being a Christian". Oh the irony.

It's sad, really, that so many Christians in America can't keep their faith out of politics. Because that does injustice to both their faith and to politics alike. And their utter bigotry is the reason why Christianity has such a bad name, much like Islam has such a bad name because of all the islamists among them.

 

[Hilander]

I could say the same thing when it comes to the conservative media, a liberal can never win with them either.

I don't see where it matters if he is a Christian or not. I don't vote for someone based on how Christian they are I vote for them on how I think they will run this country. Many of our presidents have claimed Christianity but did things that weren't Christian at all.

Not to say I wouldn't vote for someone that claimed to be a Christian but I wouldn't if I felt he/she was shoving his/her religious views off on me. I don't think that is what our founding fathers wanted and that is why we have a separation of Church and State. I really don't want religion running this country. I don't want to end up living under religious law, any religious law.

 

[CaptainObvious]

There's no irony, Sim. Your accusation that these people are "disgusting hateful partisan hacks" is an opinion based on nothing but emotion. The allegation that Obama isn't a Christian is based more on his actions and his words, not emotion. You need to keep emotion out of it and say "they are wrong, he is a Christian and here's why____" rather than just label those that disagree with you.

I don't think he is a Christian, based on his words, his actions, things he has said and done, but that's between him and God, I couldn't care less whether he is or not. The salvation of his soul is none of my business, and to be honest I don't care about where his soul ends up when he dies.

To be clear whether someone is a Christian or not, we aren't going to be living under any religious laws, that's what the Establishment Clause prohibits.

 

[Major]

The thing above all else that really reveals his true faith (or lack thereof) is his undying passion for, support of, and belief in abortion.

"Passion for" abortion? Come on. The article is filled with sensationalistic wording like that and the author immediately loses all credibility, in my opinion, when he has to resort to those tactics.

But that aside, I don't see why being a Christian and supporting the right to abortion have to be mutually exclusive. Abortion is not such a black and white issue, and a lot of people simply don't view it as murder. I don't see what that has to do with religion.
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Please note that I am not saying Obama is or isn't Christian. Personally, I don't care. I think it's a shame that religion is a factor in politicians winning votes, and for that reason, I absolutely guarantee many of them lie about it.

I believe a person should be able to keep his religion private if he so chooses, even if he is a presidential candidate. America doesn't have the right to know their president's religion, so it's stupid that they get asked about it during debates and by the media. The sad reality is that no self-declared Muslim or atheist has a snowball's chance in hell of winning any kind of national election.

 

[The_Chameleon]

I didn't read the entire article, but of what I read, I agreed with. I don't honestly care what Obama's faith is or isn't. The fruits of his endeavors will speak for themselves. His religion is Capitalism, like every other crooked-ass US politician. Obama cares not for America, it's people, it's religious affiliations, it's constitution or principles, it's flag, it's economy, it's military, or anything else. He cares about the lifestyle that being a corporate lapdog affords him. Moral conscience or strong religious convictions would simply stand in the way of this.



- Cham

 

[Sim]

There's no irony, Sim. Your accusation that these people are "disgusting hateful partisan hacks" is an opinion based on nothing but emotion. The allegation that Obama isn't a Christian is based more on his actions and his words, not emotion. You need to keep emotion out of it and say "they are wrong, he is a Christian and here's why____" rather than just label those that disagree with you.

I did, in the first posting I made above.

That the article in question was written by disgusting hateful partisan hacks should be obvious to you, like for everybody, who isn't brainwashed or has massive partisan blinders on himself.

With the same right the author of the article lies and misrepresents what black liberation theology and Obama's church stand for, that church has the right to attack the common white racist redneck churches that make the majority of fundamentalist churches in America.

That they, utter racists who believe only white people who glorify America as if it was "God's own country", disgusting rah-rah patriots who truly think they're superior to other human beings just because they're American, who hold political opinions such as hating all people who want to legalize abortion or hate gay people, claim to be "Christian" is ironic.

They glorify judgment and hatred. It's the basis they found all their policies on, they found their entire worldview on it. They judge and hate. They may worship many things, but obviously, it's not Jesus Christ's message.

And unless you're totally brainwashed by partisan American political propaganda, this should be as obvious to you as daylight.

The American "religious right" is truly the mirror image of Islam's fanatic terrorists, be it Al Qaida or Boko Haram -- the only difference being that American "religious right" people want the government to do the violence for them, instead of getting their hands dirty themselves.

 

[dDave]

Easy people, we're just having a discussion. No need to start any fights.

I could say the same thing when it comes to the conservative media, a liberal can never win with them either.

I don't see where it matters if he is a Christian or not. I don't vote for someone based on how Christian they are I vote for them on how I think they will run this country. Many of our presidents have claimed Christianity but did things that weren't Christian at all.

Not to say I wouldn't vote for someone that claimed to be a Christian but I wouldn't if I felt he/she was shoving his/her religious views off on me. I don't think that is what our founding fathers wanted and that is why we have a separation of Church and State. I really don't want religion running this country. I don't want to end up living under religious law, any religious law.

I don't know anybody that wants America to be run under religious law. The president being one religion or another doesn't mean that we are being run under religious law.

The point here is that Obama certainly claimed to be a Christian. I think we were lied to (given, it's one lie among MANY), I really haven't seen any convincing evidence that he's a Christian but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

There's no irony, Sim. Your accusation that these people are "disgusting hateful partisan hacks" is an opinion based on nothing but emotion. The allegation that Obama isn't a Christian is based more on his actions and his words, not emotion. You need to keep emotion out of it and say "they are wrong, he is a Christian and here's why____" rather than just label those that disagree with you.

I don't think he is a Christian, based on his words, his actions, things he has said and done, but that's between him and God, I couldn't care less whether he is or not. The salvation of his soul is none of my business, and to be honest I don't care about where his soul ends up when he dies.

To be clear whether someone is a Christian or not, we aren't going to be living under any religious laws, that's what the Establishment Clause prohibits.

Right. The argument isn't about what anybody feels, it's about what he has done and said. He may even believe that he is a Christian (that's not for me to say) but he is definitely misled.

I didn't read the entire article, but of what I read, I agreed with. I don't honestly care what Obama's faith is or isn't. The fruits of his endeavors will speak for themselves. His religion is Capitalism, like every other crooked-ass US politician. Obama cares not for America, it's people, it's religious affiliations, it's constitution or principles, it's flag, it's economy, it's military, or anything else. He cares about the lifestyle that being a corporate lapdog affords him. Moral conscience or strong religious convictions would simply stand in the way of this.



- Cham

I literally question whether or not Obama is on our (America's) side. His policies are sometimes so blatantly anti-American that you actually have to ask.

I did, in the first posting I made above.

That the article in question was written by disgusting hateful partisan hacks should be obvious to you, like for everybody, who isn't brainwashed or has massive partisan blinders on himself.

With the same right the author of the article lies and misrepresents what black liberation theology and Obama's church stand for, that church has the right to attack the common white racist redneck churches that make the majority of fundamentalist churches in America.

That they, utter racists who believe only white people who glorify America as if it was "God's own country", disgusting rah-rah patriots who truly think they're superior to other human beings just because they're American, who hold political opinions such as hating all people who want to legalize abortion or hate gay people, claim to be "Christian" is ironic.

They glorify judgment and hatred. It's the basis they found all their policies on, they found their entire worldview on it. They judge and hate. They may worship many things, but obviously, it's not Jesus Christ's message.

And unless you're totally brainwashed by partisan American political propaganda, this should be as obvious to you as daylight.

The American "religious right" is truly the mirror image of Islam's fanatic terrorists, be it Al Qaida or Boko Haram -- the only difference being that American "religious right" people want the government to do the violence for them, instead of getting their hands dirty themselves.

I don't think it's written by "disgusting hateful partisan hacks" and I don't find that to be obvious at all. I guess that leaves us with my being brainwashed?

Black Liberation Theology: Black liberation theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not seeing where it was misrepresented.

Obama went to this guys church for 20 years.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzhl-endvco

I think it's clear that Reverend Wright is crazy and that HE is preaching a message of hate, racism, and biblical heresy.

Jesus preached a pretty clear message (I've read it many times) and nowhere did he ever condone sin. He forgave sin and had an incredible amount of grace for sinners, but never did he condone it.

Have you ever been to one of these churches that you label as fundamentalist?

I think I probably go to one of the many churches you're referring to. We aren't racists and we don't hate other people no matter how different they are from us. Not sure how I can make that any more clear or concise.

 

[CaptainObvious]

I did, in the first posting I made above.

That the article in question was written by disgusting hateful partisan hacks should be obvious to you, like for everybody, who isn't brainwashed or has massive partisan blinders on himself.

With the same right the author of the article lies and misrepresents what black liberation theology and Obama's church stand for, that church has the right to attack the common white racist redneck churches that make the majority of fundamentalist churches in America.

That they, utter racists who believe only white people who glorify America as if it was "God's own country", disgusting rah-rah patriots who truly think they're superior to other human beings just because they're American, who hold political opinions such as hating all people who want to legalize abortion or hate gay people, claim to be "Christian" is ironic.

They glorify judgment and hatred. It's the basis they found all their policies on, they found their entire worldview on it. They judge and hate. They may worship many things, but obviously, it's not Jesus Christ's message.

And unless you're totally brainwashed by partisan American political propaganda, this should be as obvious to you as daylight.

The American "religious right" is truly the mirror image of Islam's fanatic terrorists, be it Al Qaida or Boko Haram -- the only difference being that American "religious right" people want the government to do the violence for them, instead of getting their hands dirty themselves.

No you didn't. You specifically said you have no idea whether he is a Christian or not.

Nice straw men arguments as well as throwing in a few ad hominems, but all that is nothing but opinion based on emotion. Once again. Your hatred for those who disagree with you is clear. I'm curious, what violence exactly do the "mean scary brainwashed religious right" want the government to perform for them? The cutting off of heads? How about slitting throats or setting people on fire? What evidence do you have of this alleged violence they want to inflict?

EDIT: Use of the word "hate" and "racist" to describe people who disagree with say gay marriage or against abortion is illogical. People can and do oppose those things and to label them as such are ad hominems. The biggest logical fallacy though is your "if, then" conclusion. "If you aren't brainwashed then it should be obvious" is illogical and sloppy thinking. Those are opinions, not facts, and opinions once again based on emotion. That's akin to me saying "If you believe in abortion you are a cold hearted murderer that doesn't value human life". See how illogical that is?

 

[MenInTights]

The article makes some good points though. You simply cannot be a Christian and be so incredible supportive of abortions. I've known a few people that were Christians, mostly new converts, that were pro-abortion but I've never seen a Christian be supportive to the point that they would be in favor of exterminating a child post-birth; i.e. the infamous Born Alive Act in IL.
http://www.lifenews.com/2012/08/23/new-audio-surfaces-of-obama-defending-infanticide-in-illinois/
Nobody is saying that not being a Christian is a bad thing in itself. Its just another piece of evidence that the guy is a pathological liar.