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Obama considers executive action on gun background checks

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Better how? What leads you to believe they aren't thorough enough? Can you cite ONE recent tragedy that IF these "better background checks" were in effect, they wouldn't have happened? Tashveen Malik came into this country on an K-1 Visa, which you would expect has a more thorough background check than purchasing a gun, and it didn't stop her from doing what she did, did it? So what makes a "better background check" and how would it change anything?
James Holmes.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
James Holmes.
Batman. See? I can do that too.

Nothing about Holmes would have prevented what happened. 1) There were psychiatrists that said he might be homicidal, there were some that said he wasn't. He met with three before the shooting, ONE said he might be homicidal. Denying someone a right because of what ONE doctor would be a violation of the Due Process Clause. 2) Much of his treatment would have been protected by HIPPA anyway.

And answer my question, better how? How should the background checks be "better"?

Got anything else?
 
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Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Batman. See? I can do that too.

Nothing about Holmes would have prevented what happened. 1) There were psychiatrists that said he might be homicidal, there were some that said he wasn't. He met with three before the shooting, ONE said he might be homicidal. Denying someone a right because of what ONE doctor would be a violation of the Due Process Clause. 2) Much of his treatment would have been protected by HIPPA anyway.

And answer my question, better how? How should the background checks be "better"?

Got anything else?
Just have waivers signed for HIPPA since it can be done.

His own defense attorneys said he was a psychiatric patient before the shooting.

His right to Due Process would not be violated. He would be perfectly welcome to appeal any decision made by the government
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Just have waivers signed for HIPPA since it can be done.

His own defense attorneys said he was a psychiatric patient before the shooting.

His right to Due Process would not be violated. He would be perfectly welcome to appeal any decision made by the government
Just have waivers? Who wants to waive HIPPA? I don't. How can a government force a medical provider to provide information that I don't want provided? Do you understand HIPPA?

Well yeah, they were his defense lawyers, their plea was legal insanity. He lost on that defense.

Do you not understand Due Process? You would be denied a right WITHOUT due process. Have you also not read my post in the Oregon "militia" thread? You can't "just appeal", it's not that easy. Do you know how hard it is to get off the no fly zone simply for being on because your name resembles someone else's? You can't just file an appeal. That's like arresting you right now, no probable cause, no due process, sentencing you to 10 years in prison, and having to hire a lawyer, go through years of filing motions, and someone tells you "so what? just file an appeal". It's nonsensical.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Just have waivers? Who wants to waive HIPPA? I don't. How can a government force a medical provider to provide information that I don't want provided? Do you understand HIPPA?

Well yeah, they were his defense lawyers, their plea was legal insanity. He lost on that defense.

Do you not understand Due Process? You would be denied a right WITHOUT due process. Have you also not read my post in the Oregon "militia" thread? You can't "just appeal", it's not that easy. Do you know how hard it is to get off the no fly zone simply for being on because your name resembles someone else's? You can't just file an appeal. That's like arresting you right now, no probable cause, no due process, sentencing you to 10 years in prison, and having to hire a lawyer, go through years of filing motions, and someone tells you "so what? just file an appeal". It's nonsensical.
If you want a gun badly enough, you can waive HIPPA. All rights are not absolute.

And there is probable cause to deny you the right for a gun if a background check raises red flags about your background.
 

MenInTights

not a plastic bag
Its kind of weird really. This actions won't take place until later this year. a few months before he leaves office. If any Republican wins it will be immediately thrown out.
It looks like nothing more than a tool to help get Clinton elected and to help her raise money.

The President politicized gun legislation to help elect Hillary. Either that or he knew doing this would strengthen the Republican nominee and for some reason he wants a Republican to win. Hey maybe Obama likes the Republican nominees better than the Democrat nominees?
 

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
Its kind of weird really. This actions won't take place until later this year. a few months before he leaves office. If any Republican wins it will be immediately thrown out.
It looks like nothing more than a tool to help get Clinton elected and to help her raise money.

The President politicized gun legislation to help elect Hillary. Either that or he knew doing this would strengthen the Republican nominee and for some reason he wants a Republican to win. Hey maybe Obama likes the Republican nominees better than the Democrat nominees?
Why even bother if it doesn't take effect till the end of the year except to help Hillary. However it could help the republicans more. Licensed dealers already had to run a background check at gun shows. Seems to be aimed at individuals selling guns at shows and online.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Just have waivers signed for HIPPA since it can be done.

His own defense attorneys said he was a psychiatric patient before the shooting.

His right to Due Process would not be violated. He would be perfectly welcome to appeal any decision made by the government
You just don't get it. Let me try this another way, with a hypothetical.

Let's say I witness the death of a family member. This family member was killed in an accident and I saw it happen. I held that family member in my arms and he/she laid dying. I am not only distraught at the loss of my family member, I am haunted by the witnessing of it and feeling helpless as I saw my family member die.

I see a doctor. I tell my doctor I can't sleep, I have nightmares. I say things like "I can't even get out of bed some mornings. It's affected my work and my life. I feel guilty because I lived, I wish it had been me that died instead of him/her. Sometimes I just want to crawl into a hole and die". My doctor prescribes anti depressants which I take and have refilled many times.

Fast forward a couple of years. I'm feeling much better and am coping with what happened as time as past. My neighborhood is changing though, and there have been recent break-ins and robberies in the area. I decide, I'm going to buy a gun to keep at home for protection.

I go to a local dealer and after choosing a gun, they run a background check. The dealer tells me "sorry, I can't sell you the gun, you didn't pass a background check". Unbeknownst to me, my doctor provided that information to the FBI and it raised a red flag about my mental health.

Here are a couple of pointes you fail to understand:

1) That doctor violated HIPPA by disclosing my medical information without my consent. It's not about me waiving it, it's about a doctor breaking the law, which is what one of these Executive Orders is wanting to do. That is MY personal medical information that some doctor decided was worthy of being reported. What if that doctor is anti gun and wants to report things just so less people will pass background checks? Are you ok with a doctor, ONE doctor, having that much power?

2) This is the second time in a week I've read the "just appeal it" excuse, and it shows a lack of understanding of how things work. I'm sure most of you don't know, since VERY few of you have ever purchased a gun, but a dealer doesn't know WHY you didn't pass, only that you didn't pass. You don't have a right to appeal anything, it's a decision made by a doctor and the FBI, or the current administration. So there is no due process whatsoever. I can't appeal anything because 1) I have no right to know why I didn't pass; and 2) There is no decision made by an agency where there is a record, so I have no idea whether there are appealable issues.

So what we have is 1) a violation of the law, violating HIPPA, and 2) a denial of a right without due process of law.

EDIT: As a sidenote, I find this freakin nuts. Donald Trump says "We need to stop the incoming of Syrian refugees until they have been vetted properly" and he's a racist and a nutcase, BUT we need stricter background checks on Americans exercising a constitutionally protected right....you can't make this shit up.
 
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