Not another religion topic

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by padd, Jul 24, 2008.

  1. padd

    padd Registered Member

    Unlike most believers in this section, I'm not going to start a topic.. just for the sake of, well starting a topic. I wanted to actually clear something important out. Alot of people, atheists mainly (or maybe just the one's who just post for the sake of posting!) always claim.. "RELIGION IS BAD BECAUSE IT CAUSES DEATH AND WAR".. Can I make a topic just for the sake of differing to that comment?

    Is it safe to say, that people start wars.. not religion. I have read the bible.. not once did it say "Jesus walked on water.. called his Disiples.. and invaded Palestine!" I doubt there is any intent to kill if your a religious icon. Religion was always a flag ship of peace and love. for example, The Crusades were peoples fault.. not religion. Holy Wars are peoples fault not religion. 9/11 is because of religion to right?

  2. TimmehD

    TimmehD Registered Member

    Alright, Atheist here and this is my take on it.

    Some people, especially those who have lost people close to them sometimes find it hard to accept that life is finite. So, to combat that, religion is accepted by an individual to give them a feeling of "purpose". Now, I have no problem with that and I'm not going to scold you for being religious and I won't rag on you because you won't do something that's against your religion.

    Now, having said that, war isn't started by religion. Wars, those that are applicable, are caused by people in the guise of religion. When you are wearing your religion mask then you will rally more people and it suddenly turns from a slaughter to a righteous crusade.

    So, I agree with you.
  3. Hiei

    Hiei The Hierophant

    Let's not forget the story of Saddam and Gomorrhea. Spelling is probably wrong, but you know the one. The towns that were basically going against all the bible was trying to bring forth, and God sent hell fire and brimstone down on them.

    But I don't think religious wars are right. Make for awesome stories, but I don't think they're right. If you're going to go to war, have it be something better than your imaginary friend told you to or because you misinterpreted a story.
  4. Yawny

    Yawny Registered Member

    There are other, more justificatory, reasons for going to war? If so, what are they and how do you limit them more "justified" than fighting for something you truly believe in?
  5. MenInTights

    MenInTights not a plastic bag

    But it does say that. In 1 Samuel, God told Saul to attack the neighboring tribes and kill every man, woman, child and animal. Saul actually lost his Kingship becuase he did not do as God commanded.
  6. Bjarki

    Bjarki Registered Member

    The OT is full of hatred, violence and war :)

    I think it's somewhat unfair too to call religion a flagship of peace and love and at the same time blame any violence on the individual followers. Peace and love are also started by people. And, religion, as a set of ideas that promotes intolerance to outsiders, is definitely also to blame for much violence.
    In the past hundred years historians have searched for the 'real causes' of the crusades, unruly knights roaming the countryside, sons without land, etc.. In the end they had to admit that religious fervor played a much bigger role than any of the 'material' causes. And 9/11 is definitely about religion.. an atheist would never have crashed himself into a large building just for the sake of it.. it needs a truly fucked up religion and the prospect of 72 virgins to get people to go this far. (pretty weird btw, alive Allah condemns of any sexuality outside marriage, then you die and suddenly it's ok to fuck about as much as you like..).
    It is true that wars are often waged on greed and power of individuals, but when religion gets involved it turns ten times more ugly. See the struggle in Iraq between Sunni's and Shi'ites for example, very cruel and, for the insurgency, completely unnecessary violence. Or Northern Ireland, I'm not afraid to take a bet that without the religious undertone this conflict would have ended at least 20 years ago.
    Duke1985 and Bananas like this.
  7. Bananas

    Bananas Endangered Species

    I'd say that covers it.

    Religion certainly has a role to play in war either by possible justification or through defining barriers and differences.

    It is not alone in creating these barriers; regionalism, nationalism, tribalism, ethnicity, and political interest including the desire for wealth, control and omnipotence usually set the foundation before using religion as a tool to manipulate cognitions to provide and enhance unity for the benefit of making sides.

    Even the Native Americans were commonly described as Heathens and Pagans, yet there was very little religious reasoning to their demise.
  8. Obdurate

    Obdurate Registered Member

    Quoted for truth. It's war economy. It's people not knowing when to say when. Religion isn't necessarily bad by default. It's when people are extreme about it that problems arise. It's one thing to be passionate about something (I'm passionate about, say, anarchism) but it's another to be a complete extremist with no regards for human life. Or animal life.

    I'm religious. I'm really low key about it and don't really care who's religious or not. But it does irk me when people on either side of the fence dedicate their lives to just discrediting the other side, because if you're religious or not, and you're cool about it, who cares?

    I hate seeing that religion causes wars because like Bananas said, it's a mixture of things. If you really wanted to make a blanket statement, which I don't suggest because blanket statements are generally ignorant (ha, see what I did there!), say capitalism starts wars.
  9. Oooh_snap

    Oooh_snap Living on the 0th floor V.I.P. Lifetime

    I wish I had something big and important to add to this conversation.. But mostly I just wanted to say hello to a fellow Tech N9ne fan =)
  10. SunflowerSmiley

    SunflowerSmiley Registered Member

    Religion is what influences people to do drastic things. The major events that we hear about (ie. the Crusades, 9/11, etc) are drastically bad. But religion can also do a lot of good for people.

    I agree with your statement, that people cause wars, not religion. But religion is definitely a strong factor in the decisions of people to act in drastic ways. Without religion, I'm sure that people would just find another reason to kill each other; that's just what we do.

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