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No Christmas According to Who?

dDave

Well-Known Member
V.I.P.
Hi Chaos Christmas for the non religious? Ok this has been done for a long time. The fact is that santa, reindeer and elves is the non religious aspect of Christmas.
I just want to address this one point.

Santa is based on an actual person (and a saint at that) named Saint Nicholas. Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sure, it's really evolved past the original intent but the backstory is still there which I think is cool.

In a strange (and small )way, I think non-religious people celebrating Christmas is cool in the sense that they're acknowledging Christ. Heck, Christ divided time in two, our calendar is based on him so people do that just from saying the year in a very small way.
 

Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
V.I.P.
The frequent use of the term "them" in this thread is disturbing. Remember, folks, you can't tarnish all people with a single brush in the same way that atheists can't brand all Christians as dangerous and murderous fanatics. Certainly there are some who fall into particular categories, but not all.

That said, it is sad that anyone can act like this. As an atheist myself I see Christmas as a free holiday, and personally I don't think it really has any religious connotations anymore. It's simply commercial now.
I'm not an atheist, but I couldn't agree more with this post. It's one of the big reasons why I rarely bother posting in SD anymore.
 

ReasontoBelieve

Registered Member
Ok so what about my post? Do you understand that the name Christmas comes from the name Christ? Christmas is to honor Jesus. Why can't these 2 points be connected? If it is Martin Luther King Jr's birthday (holiday) and somebody creates a comic character and tries to use it for that holiday and this character goes around entertaining kids ....

I said hey you know what? This comic character is cool. He's neat and he's funny but you do know what would happen.
People would say why are you acknowledging this character? That has nothing to do with MLK.
Hey man they would say he is real.. He fought for causes to try to bring America together.
But every year instead of honoring MLK they are honoring this cartoon. So someone asks what do you think about MLK?.. You said I don't know and I don't care. I really like that cartoon. You know in your heart that would be disrespectful. The man who is behind the holiday and the one who promoted unity is the very one who is being forgotten.

So that Christmas is named after Jesus and should represent Jesus that a number of people just don't want to honor him at all. I believe that's probably how St. Nicholas (Santa) came into existance. Sure he represents a good person but he is a big distraction. It's more dangerous then we think. When these kids grow up and you ask them who is your Lord and who is your Savior?... they will say what Lord and what Savior.. And then you ask them do you know the meaning of Christmas? They say yeah I know it's about Santa Claus and because this is so Santa will not lead them to enter the Kingdom of God. So Santa can't be taken seriously.

Yet it seems that society is making a big deal about him. Friends the meaning of Christmas is gone. If you read the Bible you will see in scripture that no is to take the place of God.
Jesus says there is only one mediator between me and the Father. He says I am the way the truth and the Life. So if anyone attempts to replace God even if with good intentions then they have completely ignored all Biblical teaching.

Not to offend Catholics but the Pope was said to me by a friend that the Pope is equal status to what Jesus is on Earth.. And even in this church the priest is called Father.. So in likewise we know that no one is at the same status as Jesus and there is no comparison in status with Santa Claus to Jesus. So in ending Christmas is just a day for Christ and not Santa Claus and or anybody else that represents that day b/c that puts the Lord below the feet of someone else which then in the eyes of men would make God to be equal to humans.
Which then makes him no longer to be God and to not be able to save anyone.
You think it's fun to replace God with Santa then let's see how far it gets anyone.
 

idisrsly

I'm serious
V.I.P.
Christmas is made up of 2 words.. Christ and mas equals 2 words.. Therefore the holiday is named after Jesus Christ. Christ is not Jesus' last name. Christ means the Messiah or the anointed one. We read about the true meaning of Christmas in Matthew Chapters 1&2.
The Savior was born into the world and was born to a Virgin and was sent to die for our sins.
I'm confused as to why you are trying to explain the meaning of the word Christmas? It's a pretty well known concept, whether you're Christian or not that Christmas is Christ's Mass. I'm not aware of any confusion as to what religion the holiday is linked to. :rolleyes:

You might say that's just a bunch of nonsense. I mean what about my presents? Sony player, TV sets, nice clothes etc.. Isn't that the meaning of Christmas? No it's not but that's the way the world has changed it to be.

Christians have not been protesting the non religious way of celebrating Christmas. So whoever put up these signs in the middle of the city didn't need to.
And with "not protesting", what you mean is that Christians have been equally partaking in this holiday tradition of giving gifts and decorating homes?

Putting up such a sign doesn't show any love. It's disrespectful. They should celebrate in any which way they choose to do so.
Disrespectful to who? Is it more or less disrespectful than signs celebrating Christ to people who don't believe in the same God you do?
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that's the point. A scene depicting an adult writing a letter to Santa Claus wouldn't really make sense and would leave people questioning the message. The same can be said for the link between fairy tales and childhood. I'd say that makes it quite sensible and clever in terms of marketing and advertisement. If you change the image, you'd have to change the message, and the message is the key part of the billboard.

The article mentions that those responsible for the billboard are trying to inform the readers that it's okay to push back against the pressure of society's expectations; that particular message is achieved in a relatively light-hearted and not overly offensive manner. Also it's probably safe at this point to highlight that the thread title (and to some extent, the article's title) is not actually correct; the billboard is not trying to 'stop' Christmas, but rather to show people that it doesn't have to be an inherently religious experience, which is how it is for me and most of the people I know.
It's about the birth of Christ....how could it NOT be inherently religious? And pushback for what? Don't want to celebrate Christmas? Don't. Who cares? I don't celebrate Ramadam or any other no Christian religious holiday. Who cares? Why write a letter to a fictitious person condemning people who believe differently than me and call their beliefs fictitious?
 

Dr4gon

Registered Member
V.I.P.
"Dear Santa, All I want for Christmas is to skip church! I'm too old for fairy tales." - The atheists that made the billboard.

Sounds like:

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people." - Karl Marx.
and:
The Communist Manifesto - by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

NEXT.
Josef Stalin.
The Komsomol.
The NKVD (People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs).
The Solovki prison camp in the White Sea.
The Gulags.
Millions of dead Russians.
More blood for Lubyanka square.

Sometimes promoting a cause goes ballistic. One did less than 100 years ago during the Oktober Revolution.

I know there are lots of atheists that respect Christians. I have a lot of atheist friends and they wouldnt support those signs. So imo this is more about communism than atheism. Thats how the communist movement started in Russia - pushing atheism.
Well I dont know if thats happening here but anythings possible...

As for me, I will celebrate New Years with the tree and all the cool gifts and stuff. And in January I will celebrate Christmas. People also have the right to ignore the billboards. The only things I will be watching are all the awesome decorations and lights and parades.
 

Chaos

Epic Gamer
V.I.P.
You might say that's just a bunch of nonsense. I mean what about my presents? Sony player, TV sets, nice clothes etc.. Isn't that the meaning of Christmas? No it's not but that's the way the world has changed it to be.
I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not disputing that the origin of the celebration is no doubt religious (note, I said 'religious' and not specifically Christian; I'll touch on that later in this post) but rather I'm stating that for many people, Christmas has no religious connotations at all. I'm sure there are a lot of people who do celebrate it as Christians, but personally I don't know anyone who celebrates the birth of Christ or refers to the Christian faith at all.

In most Western countries the holiday is a public one; we get time off work and schools are closed. But there isn't any focus on the Christian aspect and for a lot of people it's strictly commercial; you buy presents, you put up some shiny lights, you have fun and you eat food - that's pretty much it.

Christians have not been protesting the non religious way of celebrating Christmas. So whoever put up these signs in the middle of the city didn't need to.
What this signs says to those who believe in God is that God is a fairytale and is not real.
Another words this sign is an in your face message.
Again, I'm not denying that the message was perhaps poorly chosen, and I'm not agreeing with how the message was delivered. But those responsible for erecting the billboard have stated that the purpose is not to offend anybody religious but to highlight that it's acceptable not to go to church. The target audience (again, according to those responsible) are the people who have no faith or belief in the Christian religion but still feel obligated to go to Church by societal expectations and pressure. There is a documented and well-known tendency in many American states (notably, the areas in which the billboards have been placed) to assume that the Christian faith is the norm, and those who do not share the same beliefs are questioned and regarded as 'abnormal'. I have had discussions with Americans in place and they have been genuinely surprised when I've told them I'm not religious. The quote from the article reads:

The campaign, according to an American Atheists news release, is “aimed at in-the-closet atheists who are pressured to observe religious traditions during the holidays”
So while the choice of wording is not ideal, some of the best marketing strategies are the ones that have shocked the readers and thus have stood out more.

In a strange (and small )way, I think non-religious people celebrating Christmas is cool in the sense that they're acknowledging Christ.
I suppose that is true, in the same way that you have acknowledged Thor (the Norse god) forty-nine times this year. You also acknowledged Mars for a whole month, and even Julius Ceasar got his moment in the spotlight. Most things are named after something historic; Thursdays are Thor's Day, March is the month of Mars, the Roman god of war, and July is the month named after Julius Ceasar. So yes, in a way, we are acknowledging a lot of historical activities and people, which is pretty interesting.

Ok so what about my post? Do you understand that the name Christmas comes from the name Christ? Christmas is to honor Jesus. Why can't these 2 points be connected?
Yes, the name literally means "Christ's Mass", but the holiday has a basis in a variety of religions. The meaning has been watered down like so many other Christian festivals, because Christianity has had a habit of absorbing the traditions and customs of other religions to make conversion easier and simpler. Christmas is actually adapted from the Winter Solstice - a festival found in many Pagan and even Roman religions - just as Easter was adapted from the Summer Solstice. The Christmas tree is a Pagan tradition, as is the use of wreaths of holly, etc. Therefore while Christmas is well-known for being a Christian holiday, it also has grounds in a lot of other festivals and holy days as well.

However there's a more significant point about the religious connotations of Christmas, and that is choice. I choose not to celebrate Christmas as a Christian holiday, because that has no meaning for me. It doesn't mean that I ignore that many religious folks do, it just means that I treat it the way I perceive it - a public holiday, time off work, and time to spend with my family, giving and receiving gifts and catching up with people I might not ordinarily see very much throughout the year. Those who are religious are absolutely free to celebrate Christmas by observing religious traditions, obviously, or in any way they saw fit - but if I chose to celebrate Ramadan or Eid al-Fitr then I would feel free to celebrate it in the way that I chose, of my own volition, and in a world of freedom of choice I expect to be afforded the right and respect to do as I please so long as my actions are not offensive or illegal.
 

MenInTights

not a plastic bag
I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not disputing that the origin of the celebration is no doubt religious (note, I said 'religious' and not specifically Christian; I'll touch on that later in this post) but rather I'm stating that for many people, Christmas has no religious connotations at all. I'm sure there are a lot of people who do celebrate it as Christians, but personally I don't know anyone who celebrates the birth of Christ or refers to the Christian faith at all.

In most Western countries the holiday is a public one; we get time off work and schools are closed. But there isn't any focus on the Christian aspect and for a lot of people it's strictly commercial; you buy presents, you put up some shiny lights, you have fun and you eat food - that's pretty much it.
This must be a regional thing. In the States, particularly in the the South I suppose, it is very much a religious holiday. Every house on my street that is decorated for Christmas has a nativity scene. Just as you don't know anyone that celebrates the true meaning of Christmas, I literally do not know a single person that does not see Christmas as a celebration of the birth of Christ. When I lived in another state, I know a few people but even then it was a scant minority.
------
However there's a more significant point about the religious connotations of Christmas, and that is choice. I choose not to celebrate Christmas as a Christian holiday, because that has no meaning for me. It doesn't mean that I ignore that many religious folks do, it just means that I treat it the way I perceive it - a public holiday, time off work, and time to spend with my family, giving and receiving gifts and catching up with people I might not ordinarily see very much throughout the year. Those who are religious are absolutely free to celebrate Christmas by observing religious traditions, obviously, or in any way they saw fit - but if I chose to celebrate Ramadan or Eid al-Fitr then I would feel free to celebrate it in the way that I chose, of my own volition, and in a world of freedom of choice I expect to be afforded the right and respect to do as I please so long as my actions are not offensive or illegal.
I completely agree with this. Even though these billboards are meant to be offensive, most Christians just don't care about their silly slogans. The world is supposed to be offensive, Jesus promised that it would, we're used to it. Christmas is a time of joy and peace, it doesn't bother me what a bunch of clowns want to put on a billboard.
 
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Dr4gon

Registered Member
V.I.P.

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
Well it woulda been more exciting. :rolleyes:
Btw 6% of Americans are atheists. Probaly more if you count closet atheists. And 2% of the world is atheist.
Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also anybody that didnt get a billboard in their state can see it on the Bill O'Reilly show. He was bashing the signs but he also showed them.
Fox News’s Bill O’Reilly republishes atheist propaganda - The Washington Post
I'm surprised the number of atheists is that low. I have to wonder if when asked people lie about that. Kind of like they lie about how much they drink alcohol or their voting habits.

Another study published in 2005 in The Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion by sociologists C. Kirk Hadaway and Penny Long Marler — known for their scholarly research on the Church — backs up his findings. Their report reveals that the actual number of people worshipping each week is closer to Olson”s 17.7% figure — 52 million people instead of the pollster-reported 132 million (40%).

7 Startling Facts: An Up Close Look at Church Attendance in America
 
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