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No Christmas According to Who?

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
The frequent use of the term "them" in this thread is disturbing. Remember, folks, you can't tarnish all people with a single brush in the same way that atheists can't brand all Christians as dangerous and murderous fanatics. Certainly there are some who fall into particular categories, but not all.

That said, it is sad that anyone can act like this. As an atheist myself I see Christmas as a free holiday, and personally I don't think it really has any religious connotations anymore. It's simply commercial now.
Nobody is "tarnishing all folks", I was speaking generally, not specifically. Nobody should construe my post to mean ALL atheists, as a group they are the most sensitive, is my point.
 

The_Chameleon

Grandmaster
Nobody is "tarnishing all folks", I was speaking generally, not specifically. Nobody should construe my post to mean ALL atheists, as a group they are the most sensitive, is my point.
I'm "tarnishing all folks"! I'll get a nice patina going on whoever is nearby!
How dare you undermine my indiscriminate tarnishing with such a comment!?
Nobody should construe this post to mean ALL members, but as a group you will be tarnished! :lol:


- Cham


P.S. I am seriously considering changing my screen name to "Nobody" so I could really have some fun.
 
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Chaos

Epic Gamer
V.I.P.
Sure ya can! Stereotyping is fun and effective! And as an Atheist I'm surprised you've taken so long to comment. I've been trying to get a rise out of someone in your demographic since I got here.
Yes, I have noticed that as a trend in your posts. (At least in the recent ones that I read through.)

I think if a Christian group were to take out giant billboard ads reading "Thou shalt not tolerate a witch to live." that the first to complain wouldn't be the Wicca, but other Christian groups.
That's not really very realistic, though. It's as sweeping a generalisation as your following segment:

You people are worse than the Christians for being self-righteous, but when called out to back up your belief system that is supposed to render every other obsolete, you guys are nowhere to be found. You guys pull a genie act and withdraw into your bottle labeled "I'm right, you're wrong, now go away!", which sits right next to the religionist bottle with the same label.
I see what you mean when you mentioned the roller, haha.

I think an interesting point to consider here is that different atheists have different views, which is down to individual personality types rather than simply the broader spectrum of belief. There are undoubtedly many atheists who are unwilling to accept the possibility of other beliefs or even tolerate the beliefs of others, but there are just as many religious people who share the same close-mindedness. In fact, I'd wager that there are more given the number of religions that exist in the modern era.

For example, I may not believe in the fairy in your garden, but I can accept that you might and I can also accept that I cannot (and do not wish to) prove otherwise. Therefore I can accept the possibility that I am wrong, in the same way that I know that anyone with such a belief can be wrong, because none of us knows anything. And to be honest, it makes absolutely no difference to me what you do or do not believe. It has zero importance provided it has no impact upon my life; therefore what matters to me is that the beliefs of others are respected and that person A does not push their religion on person B, and vice versa. I'll always remember a quote I saw on YouTube which went something like:

"Having a religion is like having a penis. It's fine that you have one, but don't get it out in public and don't ram it down my throat."

This view is not one inspired by atheism in particular but by my own personality and individual views. I would expect and hope that the same opinion would be held by religious people in regards to those who do not practice a faith or believe in a religion/deity. Erecting a billboard declaring that "a particular [grouping identifier] is [negative descriptor]" is sad and pointless, but this isn't something that should be limited to religious views or debates - anyone who is caring, respectful and compassionate towards others (as I believe myself to be) should see that this kind of act is petty and small-minded, and not representative of a group of people with specific beliefs, but simply representative of petty and unpleasant people who would still be petty and unpleasant if they happened to worship Christ, Buddha, or a flying potato.
 

ReasontoBelieve

Registered Member
well I think as far as Christians goes they can divided into certain groups or beliefs... Mitt Romney for example is a Mormon. number of people were disturbed about his belief and faith but people should have focused on his presidency and what kind of job he was going to do.

Now if there was a sign put up that said Christmas is a holdiday not for Athiests.. We know all Christians didn't put that sign up. But this was most likely done by a specific Christian denomination. So we can say for example the Methodist Church is the one who put the sign up. So now we can only blame the Methodists.

Now however when we run into an article like this that it said the Athiests group put up this sign in the middle of red states. What are we supposed to think? Whenever I have spoken to an Athiest they said yes I am an Athiest. They don't specify any denomination etc.. In fact the Athiests that I have spoken with have supported other Athiests. Atheism is referred by many people as a religion that promotes that God doesn't exist. I am christian but have a friend that is Atheist..When you offend his belief he goes totally off the handle.
But myself and other Christian friends can take more oppostion without having to react unless it is necessary. The deal is when we see a sign like this we know that a certain amount of Atheists that were offended. There is not much of a way how to divide these Atheists groups.

Sure Chaos I'm sure that Atheists think differently. But those that put up this sign claim to be Atheists who do not agree about those that go to church. The word them has been used b/c Atheists have failed to recognize themselves as individuals or certain groups. So you can't blame the posters for saying them. The newspaper article says Atheists. So there's no way we can tell which individuals have put up the sign. leaving everyone with this conclusion.

a group of Atheists have done it . In order to separate each person they would have to name each individual which the article won't. So unless Athiests groups are specific how they are divided then most people will generalize them into 1 group. A misunderstanding perhaps but we don't any better.
 

Chaos

Epic Gamer
V.I.P.
Now however when we run into an article like this that it said the Athiests group put up this sign in the middle of red states. What are we supposed to think? Whenever I have spoken to an Athiest they said yes I am an Athiest. They don't specify any denomination etc..
You're correct, there aren't any denominations or sub-groups within atheism because it's such a widespread belief. There are numerous denominations of Christianity because there are varying beliefs within the religion; Mormons, Protestants, Roman Catholics - these groups all have slightly varying opinions within the broader fold of Christianity. Conversely atheism is simply the belief there are no gods, so there isn't as much variety.

However there are two issues I disagree with in your post above - the trust in the media and the grouping of atheists. You're putting faith into a media article when the media has a known tendency to exaggerate or even falsify information. I'm not saying this is the case but there could be any number of people responsible for this billboard; furthermore to say that whoever is responsible for this act has done so on behalf of all atheists is impossible because atheists don't have a united front, they don't have a leader or an organisation. It isn't a religion or even a unified faith. Therefore anyone acting in such a manner - regardless of what that activity is - cannot be representative of all atheists.

I am christian but have a friend that is Atheist..When you offend his belief he goes totally off the handle.
But myself and other Christian friends can take more oppostion without having to react unless it is necessary.
Again, the thing to remember is that individual people respond and react differently to different things. There are Christians who explode into violence at the suggestion that their beliefs are wrong. There are Christians who tout the words of the Bible to incite hatred. There are Muslims who have slain others for not sharing their beliefs. There are atheists who have committed some heinous acts against those who have religious beliefs.

The point is that while religion is a factor that has driven these acts, ultimately the decision to commit them rests solely with the individuals themselves. If you strip religion from such people then they would still be inclined towards violence or disruptive behaviour because it is simply how they are. Many people use religion to condone their actions (both those who are religious or those who act against religion) and to judge all such people in one fell swoop is to embrace ignorance and shun compassion. Rather than judging the many for the acts of one or the few, is it not better to appreciate the one or the few irrespective of the behaviour of the many?
 

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
I think one thing we can take from this is you have to judge all people on their own merits weather they are Christian, Muslim or atheist.

When it comes to groups that ares solely formed because of hate that might be different. Your not going to join a hate group if you aren't like minded.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
What I find ironic 1) they use a little girl in the picture then claim "I'm too old for fairy tales; 2) they use a letter to Santa to say they are too old for fairy tales. I doubt the irony is apparent to those that made this billboard.
 

The_Chameleon

Grandmaster
Hey! Where my recent post go? I got rep for that masterpiece! Did somebody with no sense of humor go and whine like a Quebeccer? What's the deal? Who's the party pooper? I'm going to start a riot! (That is how people protest nowadays ain't it?)

Rod-ney King!
Rod-ney King!
Rod-ney King!


Seriously though, if I offended anyone (even a Quebeccer) than I apologize. I also completely forgot this section was labelled "Serious Discussion"... My bad. :D


- Cham
 
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Chaos

Epic Gamer
V.I.P.
What I find ironic 1) they use a little girl in the picture then claim "I'm too old for fairy tales; 2) they use a letter to Santa to say they are too old for fairy tales. I doubt the irony is apparent to those that made this billboard.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that's the point. A scene depicting an adult writing a letter to Santa Claus wouldn't really make sense and would leave people questioning the message. The same can be said for the link between fairy tales and childhood. I'd say that makes it quite sensible and clever in terms of marketing and advertisement. If you change the image, you'd have to change the message, and the message is the key part of the billboard.

The article mentions that those responsible for the billboard are trying to inform the readers that it's okay to push back against the pressure of society's expectations; that particular message is achieved in a relatively light-hearted and not overly offensive manner. Also it's probably safe at this point to highlight that the thread title (and to some extent, the article's title) is not actually correct; the billboard is not trying to 'stop' Christmas, but rather to show people that it doesn't have to be an inherently religious experience, which is how it is for me and most of the people I know.
 

ReasontoBelieve

Registered Member
Hi Chaos Christmas for the non religious? Ok this has been done for a long time. The fact is that santa, reindeer and elves is the non religious aspect of Christmas.
Ok you drive out in the city and you see these kinds of decorations..

Christmas is made up of 2 words.. Christ and mas equals 2 words.. Therefore the holiday is named after Jesus Christ. Christ is not Jesus' last name. Christ means the Messiah or the anointed one. We read about the true meaning of Christmas in Matthew Chapters 1&2.
The Savior was born into the world and was born to a Virgin and was sent to die for our sins.

You might say that's just a bunch of nonsense. I mean what about my presents? Sony player, TV sets, nice clothes etc.. Isn't that the meaning of Christmas? No it's not but that's the way the world has changed it to be.

Christians have not been protesting the non religious way of celebrating Christmas. So whoever put up these signs in the middle of the city didn't need to.
What this signs says to those who believe in God is that God is a fairytale and is not real.
Another words this sign is an in your face message. Whoever put up these signs no Christians or churches had told them that the non religious is not allowed to decorate their houses with Santa and reindeers. Are they knocking on doors or putting up signs to prevent them from doing so? Those who put up these billboards hate the true meaning of Christmas and more then anything else they have ridiculed and despised God himself.

The good news I am sure that God is real and has looked down on these things. People don't get away these things. These things do get recorded. But these people are also allowed to turn from their ways and turn to him. He will forgive them from all they did. But God is a loving God and that's the true meaning of Christmas. Putting up such a sign doesn't show any love. It's disrespectful. They should celebrate in any which way they choose to do so.

They are going to prove a point saying this is a fairytale? No they have it all wrong. Rather you say Merry Christmas and Joy to you all of my friends and family. Christmas is a day of joy and celebration and not a day of attacking ones belief. So it was wrong to put up this billboard and just celebrate however they wanted to. Everyone can do what they want to do on their side of the fence.
 
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