NHL discusses second team in Toronto area; Coyotes in play?

icegoat63

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#2
Doesnt New York have like 4 teams if you include that Tri-State area?

NY Rangers
NY Islanders
Buffalo Sabres
NJ Devils?

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Either way I dont know if I like it. I mean Ontario already has Ottawa and Toronto there, the Leafs being one of the more prominent money making clubs in the whole league. I'm just a little afraid on the business side that it could hurt league revenues in the long run when you start trying to Double Tap a market like Toronto.

Me personally, I'm absolutely 100% expanding another team in Canada. Without a doubt in my mind thats what should be the top Consideration if theres to be any Expansion. But I also realize that the Reason it hasnt happened yet is because of the lack of Corporate Support. If I had billions of dollars you can bet I'd stick another team in either Quebec or back somewhere in Central Canada like Winnepeg. I just dont know if multi-tapping Toronto is the proper way to go about it. Even if you were to replace the AHL/OHL teams with an NHL club in Kitchener or Hamilton... you're still stomping all over that territory of the Leafs and even start creeping onto the Sabres area!

So yeah, I just figure in the long run its not a good idea. But then again thats coming from a Central Californian who is probably about as far away as you can get geographically in the Continental North America right? :hah:
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
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#3
Toronto as close to six million people, I don't think it would be a big problem to put another team in Toronto. Now you might say where are you going to get 19,000 other people to fill up the arena to watch the second Leafs team, well that wouldn't be much of an issue either because, most of the fans that fill up the ACC are season ticket holders. Which means a lot of Leafs fans cannot go to watch a game live becayse getting a ticket it almost impossible to get.

Like I've said more then once I would love to have another team in Canada, I think it would be extremely smart move from the NHL. But like Goat mentioned, it would of probably be done if they could get a Corporate Support, that might be a problem in Winnipeg or Quebec(both of these cities lost franchises) but it wouldn't be a problem in Toronto. Also both of those cities need money for a new arena. I dont think it would be hard for Toronto to have a budget to build a new arena. But if they do, I am sure they can find a stadium or another arena to make the team play for now.
 

icegoat63

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#4
Toronto as close to six million people, I don't think it would be a big problem to put another team in Toronto. Now you might say where are you going to get 19,000 other people to fill up the arena to watch the second Leafs team, well that wouldn't be much of an issue either because, most of the fans that fill up the ACC are season ticket holders. Which means a lot of Leafs fans cannot go to watch a game live becayse getting a ticket it almost impossible to get.
Ok well I'm with you here, But I'm still concerned about the Conversion factor ya know. How many Leafs fans would be willing to jump ship and become Toronto2 fans? I mean I know that alot of local places have team support pretty deeply ingrained in their traditions. I'm imagining Oakland here in California, if you're in Oakland you support the Raiders and A's... given there are some people that dont but the Sports fan will support those teams.

My big thing is that they'll put that Second team in and they wont be able to draw flies. 'Cause lets be serious here... the Leafs are an Original Six team, I hear all the time that the Senators up in Ottawa still have trouble getting fans due to the fact that the Leafs have such a foothold on the Market. I'm trying to put this into perspective in my head and really the only other one I can think of is the Isles and the Rags. The Rangers are obviously the top Teir team out of the two, I honestly cant say I've heard to much good coming out of the Islanders in recent history. But I suppose just the fact that they've coincided together for so long goes to show its possible.

Meh... I dunno jsut something I'll have to see for myself to believe.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
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#5
Well I live in Ottawa and let me tell you when the Leafs play the Sens in Ottawa there's more Leafs fan then Sens fan, same thing goes for when the Sens play the Canadiens. One of the reasons why Ottawa as problem getting fans is because it's so hard to get to the arena, its really hard to explain, but they built it at the worse spot possible. Second Ottawa is not a sports city, most of the fans here are bandwagon fan, they'll only go to games if the team is winning.

I sort of see your point about how many original Leafs fan will cheer for Toronto 2, but I am sure if the team starts winning, they'll start cheering. I dont see them having a problem selling tickets, like I said it's already hard to get a ticket for the Leafs in today's age, a lot of people would go see the Toronto2 if they could get tickets.

I just see this as a great move for the NHL if they do decide to move the Coyotes to Toronto. You also have to take into consideration on who coaches the Coyotes, Wayne Gretzky who is a Canadian Idol.
 

icegoat63

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#6
I sort of see your point about how many original Leafs fan will cheer for Toronto 2, but I am sure if the team starts winning, they'll start cheering. I dont see them having a problem selling tickets, like I said it's already hard to get a ticket for the Leafs in today's age, a lot of people would go see the Toronto2 if they could get tickets.

I just see this as a great move for the NHL if they do decide to move the Coyotes to Toronto. You also have to take into consideration on who coaches the Coyotes, Wayne Gretzky who is a Canadian Idol.
This part right here reminds me of a crucial element I forgot about. The Anti-Fan. They are the ones that love the sport but hate their team. I see that all the time and somehow completely forgot about it. They would be the ones that are Pissed off at the Leafs for being so inaccessible that they'd go cheer for a second team just to show how much they disapprove of the leafs! I'm sure they could find 12-16000 of those people easy in a sports area like Toronto.

I have also heard that about Ottawa, that its just a crappy crappy area. Obviously I've never been there to see about it with my own eyes and experiences, but from what I've heard on the XM that is a common complaint about the Sens.

ANd did I miss something? Phoenix is having trouble again? Werent they the old Jets? Meh, well if they do end up moving hopefully the 3rd time is a charm. And I do agree..... what better way to stir the pot then like you said to stick in the Canadian Hero himself in the mix, Wayne Gretzky back in Canada. I suppose in those two lights I could see it working.

But also the crucial element I've always heard is that a team can survive in a city for quite a few seasons and never get a single fan to show up to the arena just as long as the corporate backing is there. Obviously teams that have fans that show up do better, but this is a great example of why the low attendance clubs like Atlanta have survived that long. I have heard over and over that the guy from Hamilton (cant remember his name, the Black Berry Guy) would pretty much foot the bill for a new team there. So that alone would get the ball rollin, even if they couldnt get fans immedietely.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
#7
There's also the "True Fan" where they'll refuse to cheer for the second Toronto team, since they've grew up watching the Blue and White, and will do for the rest of their lives.

Is the Winnipeg Jets relocated to Phoenix, and they've been in trouble for a few years now.

The man your thinking of is Jim Balsillie, he's been trying to buy the Predators and move them to Hamilton for a few years now, but that jack ass, I mean Gary Bettman won't let it happen for some reason.
 

Millz

LGB
Staff member
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#8
I'd love to expand more into Canada and contract some of the southern teams in the USA but they need to be careful. There's a reason the Nordiques and Jets moved outta Canada.

I think Toronto is the best perfect place to have 2 clubs though. WIll anybody root for them though haha...I mean the Maple Leafs have been there forever
 

TheDonkeyofPoker

Registered Member
#9
I would love nothing more then to see a team on Hwy 7
the GTA (greater Toronto area) actually has a higher population reach then the population of NYC.

Hamilton to Newmarket(Barrie) ( N to S ) Oshawa to Kitchener/Waterloo ( E to W )

I believe a little league team in Toronto made more money then some NHL (Lightning) team does
 
#10
I believe a little league team in Toronto made more money then some NHL (Lightning) team does
Haha, that made laugh. That is some crazy stuff right there.

I'd just like to see a new team, and it would be best if that team was in Canada and replaced one of the current teams that we don't need. Like the Ducks, Wings, Stars or Bruins. Ha. Kidding.