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New iPhone App to 'Cure' Gays

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
Oh, if only all you people who think this is 'okay' have read, heard and seen what I have over the years. I have been following this type of thing for a very long time now and it is not pretty. The results are barley ever good, and it's almost always the same story.

I've read and heard stories of both men and women who were forced into these -anti-gay Christian- programs as teenagers by their families and churches. Many of them end up committing suicide later in life. I've heard of women living unhappy lives married to men they don't love in a family with children who just spend their days contemplating suicide and most end up fighting depression their whole life.

You people can believe what you want but in the end for most cases homosexuality is something a person is born with, and cannot be changed. Even the people who say they are "cured" usually have these feelings arise again later in life and that's usually when the battle with depression starts again. It's not pretty, it's not fun and this is the cause of loss of life for many people.

Also, I have as I said been studying this type of thing for a long time, mostly out of interest and disgust. I have been to biased websites, none biased websites, spoken to people, e-mailed people and to this day I haven't found even one case where a gay person was "cured" of homosexuality and go on to live a full, rich, happy life.

You can all support this if you like, but that's not the type of reaction I was expecting when I posted this here. In fact I'm actually shocked by the amount of support this app is getting on this forum. It makes me wonder where I truly am.
You're trying to draw a causal connection that is nearly impossible to prove. People commit suicide for various reasons. To claim those who attend these "programs" somehow have a higher suicide rate is erroneous.

You may disagree with the app and that's fine, I do too. I still don't think that's a good enough reason to take it down. There are a myriad of things I don't like from TV shows to websites, that doesn't mean it's a good enough reason to take them down. And if I don't think they should be taken down that doesn't mean I support them.
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
And I know that there are many Christian LGTB people out there, in fact one of my best friends is a Christian who is a lesbian, I only pointed out that it was a bit of fail in this particular case because it was a Christian group who created this ridiculous app. And honestly.... there are not many "willing" participants in something like this. I can basically garuntee that. There would probably be a few but they would be way out numbered by those who are forced by their family, their friends and their churches to dire consequences.
It seems to me that if a family was going to be trying to force treatment on a person, I'd rather they do it through an app than through something big like counseling sessions or something.

Also, did you not read the article? If you think the treatment isn't a problem then that means you support false scare tactics and misinformation to forcibly change a persons view on life. That is basically how cults form... it's no different to brainwashing really, and when that participant is unwilling it's so shocking that I think it should be illegal.
I read the article. The article didn't actually tell me about the app. It only told me what people who oppose the app think about the app. Does it have scare tactics? Maybe, maybe not.

And I wasn't necessarily saying THIS app is okay as treatment, because I have no way of knowing. I'm talking about some form of treatment in general.

People can be forced/coerced into all sorts of things. I've heard of dads who force their kids to play sports because the dad wants the kid to succeed where the dad didn't quite make it. Should we ban sports?

Oh well, at least there are good people in the world. They got over 37,000 signatures against this monstrosity of human nature in less than a day, and I hear that number has gone way up since then. There still is hope, even amongst this gross stupidity.
Signing a petition for a good cause doesn't make you a good person. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that many of them don't even really know what it's about - they just view it as "pro-gay" VS "anti-gay", and automatically side with anything "pro-gay"

You can all support this if you like, but that's not the type of reaction I was expecting when I posted this here. In fact I'm actually shocked by the amount of support this app is getting on this forum. It makes me wonder where I truly am.
I think you may be overreacting a bit here. I'm not going to judge this app one way or another based on ZERO information on it. And even if it isn't good, I'm not convinced Apple should take it down. I doubt an app like this would push anyone to suicide, even if it's as bad as you say. What would influence them to make that decision would be feeling unaccepted by friends/relatives, etc.
 

Smelnick

Creeping On You
V.I.P.
In the end, it's just an application on a piece of technology. It's only going to effect those people with an iPod. And even then, only those that are LBGT who have an iPod. And if they want to avoid it, then they just don't download it. You're always gonna have one religious group or another, bending the language of their religious text to justify descrimination. When people stand up to oppose them, it rarely discourages them. It's free press. Now because this situation has been getting so much media coverage, some sick religiously zealous parent will find out about this app, tie their teen to a chair and force him to view it or something else akin to that.
 

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
I think Wade brings up some really good points. I have to admit I know nothing about the app and therefore have no opinion about it at all. Until I know what exactly it entails, I don't agree or disagree with the app. And again, even if I do end up disagreeing with it, that doesn't mean it should be taken down.
 

shelgarr

Registered Member
It's not only the name that bothers me, but it's the content of the app itself. I haven't personally seen it but I've read for many different sources that it uses scare tactics, misinformation and quite biased and unfair ideas to convert people. That means they are basically going to any lengths to change someone which by the sounds of things includes lying through their teeth. That seems wrong to me too. I suppose there's just no correct and "truthful" way to convince someone not to be gay so they have to result to these terribly methods.

See bold ^^^^. That's the crux of your complaint. You maintain vehemently that no one can convince another not to be gay. It doesn't matter if it's an app, a program, a bill board, a preacher, or even a reputable gay leader....there is nothing that will lead you to be open-minded about it.

What you are reading here however is opposition to your assertion that to censor, restrict, condem, and judge a group and a product is the answer. Live and let live, right? If it doesn't have a demand in the marketplace, it'll fail. Let it take it's course. If it is bought, is used, and actually does play a part in someone's life, than so be it. It still might fail.
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You can all support this if you like, but that's not the type of reaction I was expecting when I posted this here. In fact I'm actually shocked by the amount of support this app is getting on this forum. It makes me wonder where I truly am.
Support for the app? Breathe and read. Freedom is what we support.
 
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Iris

rainbow 11!
I agree with what ysabel said. I am not supporting the notion of curing gay people, but just letting apple market what it wants.
 

Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
V.I.P.
I share similar thoughts as everyone else. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the app itself since I don't know what it contains, but I don't see why it should be taken down just because there are 100,000 people or however many who signed some petition. Nobody is being forced to download the app. Maybe 99.9% of homosexuals would never consider it. But if there's even one person who would, then the option should be there for him/her.
 

Crouton

Ninja
V.I.P.
Ah well, you can't change everyone I suppose. I personally won't support this blatant homophobia but to each their own.
 

qweerblue

Registered Member
Crouton, I think what you were hoping for, or maybe even expecting, was for a lot of indignation and anger over yet another expression of anti-gay, homophobic sentiment. What I expect you were not counting on was the deep value that most of the folks replying here place on freedom, and, yes, on capitalism. I understand your passion and the fact that you feel offended by what feels like a defense of something you find deeply abhorrent, and I understand your frustration and indignation over the fact that programs like Exodus are not only rooted in narrow-minded hatred and judgmental moralizing, but that their tactics are suspect and their results are questionable. I get how all that adds up to feeling as if surely everyone will recognize that this Apple app is monstrously inappropriate (especially in light of the fact that Apple *has* rejected other apps) and should be opposed, but… Again, there’s those pesky notions of freedom—including the free market. I’ve only ever lived in the US, and here, most people place an incredibly high value on personal freedoms, including the right to moralize and to express one’s opinions about people and events and such, as well as on the right to “let the market decide” what is an acceptable commodity.

Having said all that, I am pleased as punch, once again, for having decided not to buy an iPhone when I was in the market for a new phone. I am disgusted and offended by any show of support for groups like Exodus, and I think this app is, to say the least, in very poor taste. I suspect that I differ some from my fellow citizens in that there is a deep tension in me regarding what we have decided are our most cherished freedoms and how much faith and respect we have for the free market. Still, while in my perfect world, a group like Exodus would be shut down just on the basis of its flawed beliefs, reprehensible tactics, and questionable results, in my reality, it is nearly impossible to imagine allowing any entity, governmental or otherwise, the authority to determine which groups should be banned merely on ideological grounds. And as long as Exodus itself is allowed to exist, as appalling as it is, the app is just an indirect manifestation of the group itself.





An interesting fact: this is round three, at least, for Apple and anti-gay apps: Second iPhone App Decried as ’Anti-Gay’ :: EDGE New York City



Finally, one thing I was thinking that could discredit Exodus is some kind of mass law suit, initiated by its victims. If enough people spoke out and drew attention to the twisted, draconian tactics used by his group, particularly if those tactics caused mental anguish and distress to the “participants,” that would carry a lot more weight than “mere” moral outrage.

Oh, well, ok, one more thing—I’m gonna go out on a limb and say, too, Crouton, that you may have been slightly annoyed by some statements here that were made about gay people that would never be made about straight ones; for instance:

“Which seems to imply that a person who is somewhere on the gay side but has heterosexual impulses as well, and would like to not be gay might theoretically benefit from treatment”

I wonder what the reaction would be if there were some kind of group to help cure people of their heterosexuality, you know, for someone on the straight side but with homosexual impulses…?

“Maybe an alternative to the word "cure" would help? How about "undo", "reverse"....”

Again, I wonder how folks would feel about a group that used guilt and shame and fear and other psychological methods to try and “undo” or “reverse” someone’s heterosexuality. That’s problematic on a few levels, right? First—relying on emotional manipulation to affect change in someone; and second—assuming heterosexuality could be cured, reversed, or undone…

“And the words "cure" and "treatment" does not imply a disease.”

Well, for one thing, “cure” most definitely does imply sickness, illness, or disease, as does “treatment”, though, as you pointed out, one can seek our treatments for numerous “problems”. The thing is, being gay is not a problem any more than being straight is, and yet I bet you would be flabbergasted by any notion that someone would want “treatment” for their heterosexuality.
 

Crouton

Ninja
V.I.P.
I love you qweerblue, you just said everything perfectly. How do you always do that!?! I appreciate that you can understand and see my absolute disgust and outrage at this and I find it interesting that you bring up freedom. It is in some ways about freedom, but you have to wonder where this 'freedom' draws the lines? If Apple is allowed to publish homophobic apps, then why not racist ones? Why not Anti-simitic ones? Why not an app that convinces people that Christianity is 'wrong' and tries to save them from their ways to an athiest lifestyle? I'm sure if ANY of those were made into an app there would be worldwide outrage, yet the homophobic ones gets through? That seems like an EXTREME double standard for me.

I also like how you turned it all on it's head and brought up the question of what would happen if it was heterosexuality, and not homosexuality. I'm sure if an app was released to "cure" the world of the heterosexuality illness and make everyone gay then there would be some much different reactions to the app in this thread, and indeed worldwide.
 
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