Montreal Screw Job

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
#1
We haven't really talked about the montreal Screw Job involving Bret Hart. I was wondering what are your thoughts on the situation that happen with Bret and Vince.

Who's side are you on and why?
 

Anthony1975

Registered Member
#2
I am on Bret's side. He gave Vince 13 years of solid service and loyalty and did not deserve to be treated that way. He had reasonable creative control in the last 30 days of his contract and I don't see anything wrong in Bret suggesting he win by DQ in front of his home crowd, then agreeing to lose to Shawn at the next Raw or PPV or whatever. I know full well people will say he refused to do the job but I say take a look at Hulk Hogan, Shawn Michaels and Triple H and maybe to a certain degree The Undertaker. All those guys have refused to put talent over, Triple H more predominantly so considering his family ties but lets not go down that road again lol.
 

Shooting_Palanx

The Rock is cooking atm..
#3
I'm with Bret Hart.....there were simple alternatives to this matter, and brets idea made the most sense.

Vince was an idiot to think he'd go with the belt to WCW and deface it...
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
#4
As you probably know I'm siding with Bret Hart on this one as well. Like Anthony mentioned Bret didn't mind losing the title, but he just didn't want to lose it in front of his country. Now some people might come an say well Americans lose it all the time on their home soil, which is true but this is totally different. First off Bret was leaving the company that he gave his blood, sweat and tears.

I never been a believer that Bret was going to take the belt to Nitro, I fill that was a load of crock to be honest with you, Bret would of happily given the title to HBK the next day. Bret unlike a lot of superstars didn't mind putting people over. I think Vince lost more in the end, it took a lot of years for him and Bret to start talking again, British Bulldog and Jim the Anvil Hart left because of this as well. So even though he probably we'll never admit it, he probably regrets doing this whole thing.
 

Millz

LGB
Staff member
V.I.P.
#5
I'm with Bret Hart.....there were simple alternatives to this matter, and brets idea made the most sense.

Vince was an idiot to think he'd go with the belt to WCW and deface it...
How do you know that for sure?

I've decided to play devil's advocate today. Bret Hart is no saint people. Bret has as big of an ego as some of the other big names in the WWE. He didn't want to drop the belt in Canada because of his ego and he didn't want to lose the belt to Shawn Michaels because he hated him.

Let's think about the fabric of wrestling back then...it was a lot different then as it is today. McMahon almost lost to WCW. Hogan, Nash, Hall, Luger etc all left him to go to WCW and WCW was winning the battle. After what happened with the former Womens title I cannot blame Vince for being a little paranoid. Do I personally think Bret was going to take the WWF title to Nitro? Nah, he's a better person then that.

Vince is to blame and Bret is to blame. To not give blame on both sides is ignorant IMO. They both could have handled this situation differently but neither wanted to back down. I dont think Vince should have screwed Bret like he did but its hard for me to blame him either.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
#6
I had a feeling you would play devil's advocate. We don't know for sure if Bret was going to bring the World Title to WCW, but personally I don't believe he would. I don't think asking Vince to lose the title on Monday Night Raw is ego thing. I know that Bret Hart couldn't stand HBK, but he told Vince that he didn't mind dropping the belt to Shawn the next day on Raw. So I believe Bret hating HBK is a moot point when debating the screw job.

Well there's a few good reasons why those guys left to go to WCW, first of all it's the money, Bischoff had all the money he wanted so he offered all of those guys tons of money and guaranteed contracts. Second being that Vince was hard to get along with, it was his way or the highway. It was different with WCW because some of those guys were offered a lot of control in the back. So put all those things together and it makes sense that they would leave for WCW.

I don't see how you can blame Bret though, because I don't think he did anything wrong. all he ask was to lose the belt the next day, and Vince promised him it was alright. Vince didn't keep his promise and screwed him, don't see how Bret did anything wrong.
 

Millz

LGB
Staff member
V.I.P.
#7
I had a feeling you would play devil's advocate. We don't know for sure if Bret was going to bring the World Title to WCW, but personally I don't believe he would. I don't think asking Vince to lose the title on Monday Night Raw is ego thing. I know that Bret Hart couldn't stand HBK, but he told Vince that he didn't mind dropping the belt to Shawn the next day on Raw. So I believe Bret hating HBK is a moot point when debating the screw job.
I don't think it is a moot point because he wasn't going to "drop the belt" to Shawn. He was going to vacate the title and say goodbye. Its not like Shawn and Bret were going to have a match and Shawn was going to pin him or anything. Bret wanted to not lose in Canada (especially to Michaels) and not lose to Michaels period.


Well there's a few good reasons why those guys left to go to WCW, first of all it's the money, Bischoff had all the money he wanted so he offered all of those guys tons of money and guaranteed contracts. Second being that Vince was hard to get along with, it was his way or the highway. It was different with WCW because some of those guys were offered a lot of control in the back. So put all those things together and it makes sense that they would leave for WCW.
All of that is true but that doesn't further the point of the discussion though. My point was that since people were leaving to go to WCW Vince had to have his guard up at all times and he couldn't trust anybody. Even Bret.

I don't see how you can blame Bret though, because I don't think he did anything wrong. all he ask was to lose the belt the next day, and Vince promised him it was alright. Vince didn't keep his promise and screwed him, don't see how Bret did anything wrong.
He asked to vacate the belt the next day...its a huge difference. Vince is the boss and Bret should have done what his boss told him to do. That's how it works!
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
#8
Bret was going to lose to Shawn that night, just not via pin, he was going to get himself disqualified, so in some sense he was still losing to Bret just not losing the title. Now I'm not 100% sure on this, but Vince knew at least a couple of weeks ahead of that Pay Per View that Bret was going to leave for WCW. He had ample time to make him lose the title before hand, now we don't know any of the politics in the back, well most of it so I can't say for sure if Bret refused to do so.


I agree with you that Vince is the boss, but the WWE world is quite different from the rest of the jobs in this world. Vince always ask the other wrestlers input on what should happen during the match, he doesn't come up with this stuff by himself. You give some and you receive some, there's been lots of times where Vince wanted to do something but the wrestler refused doing so, and Vince went with the wrestlers opinion instead of his own. He should of done that with Bret in this case.

What I never understood though is if Vince was worried about Bret brining the belt to WCW, why didn't he just ask Bret to relinquish the title every night before he went home? Now I don't know how that works exactly, but wouldn't that save so many headaches?
 

Millz

LGB
Staff member
V.I.P.
#9
Bret was going to lose to Shawn that night, just not via pin, he was going to get himself disqualified, so in some sense he was still losing to Bret just not losing the title. Now I'm not 100% sure on this, but Vince knew at least a couple of weeks ahead of that Pay Per View that Bret was going to leave for WCW. He had ample time to make him lose the title before hand, now we don't know any of the politics in the back, well most of it so I can't say for sure if Bret refused to do so.

I was talking about the next night on RAW. He wasn't going to drop the belt to Michaels. He was going to hand the belt to McMahon...there was also a rumor of him losing to Ken Shamrock for the title. Bret just didn't want to lose the championship to Michaels.

Why didn't he vacate the belt before SS? I'm sure Bret didn't want to do that because he wanted to fight in Montreal...just not lose the title to Michaels. Besides, its not a very good business decision to eliminate your big money main event at the Survivor Series.

I agree with you that Vince is the boss, but the WWE world is quite different from the rest of the jobs in this world. Vince always ask the other wrestlers input on what should happen during the match, he doesn't come up with this stuff by himself. You give some and you receive some, there's been lots of times where Vince wanted to do something but the wrestler refused doing so, and Vince went with the wrestlers opinion instead of his own. He should of done that with Bret in this case.
Yeah and Bret Hart did have some sort of creative control in his contract. I think there were better ways of handling the situation. Bret shouldn't have been so hard headed and sucked it up and dropped the belt, in Canada, to Shawn Michaels. I mean he was the one leaving the WWE anyways.

I don't think Vince should have done what he did but I understand why he did it. My point is not that I agree with what Vince did but that I get why he did it. Both guys need to know what roles they had in this whole situation.

What I never understood though is if Vince was worried about Bret brining the belt to WCW, why didn't he just ask Bret to relinquish the title every night before he went home? Now I don't know how that works exactly, but wouldn't that save so many headaches?

Like I said before, money. The Michaels/Hart WWE Title rematch from Wrestlemania 12 is a huge money maker. Especially considering how over Bret Hart was and since it was in Canada. If Bret Hart is going to jump ship to WCW then McMahon needed to get some more money back on his investment.
 

Anthony1975

Registered Member
#10
Not being funny but it would not have been in Bret's best interests to take the belt to WCW. Yeah sure it would have been a big slap in the face for Vince sure but I am pretty damn certain Bret would have faced a huge lawsuit had he done so.