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MLB Top 32

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Came across a great column by Joe Posnanski on SI.com listing his idea for the top 32 ball players in MLB. No doubt will start a debate on a few such as Adrian Gonzales at # 3 slot.

Joe Posnanski Posts The 32 Best Players in Baseball for 2011

Hopefully we can get some good debate going on here. We have legit baseball fans here at GF and I don't want to talk to myself. :lol:

I definitely agree with the top two, glad that Doc made it at the number two slot. He deserves to get all the priase from Pos. Doc has been one if not the best pitcher in the last decade in Baseball, and he's already off to a great srtart this season.

After looking at the list, which spots do you not agree with? Obviously, I don't believe Gonzales deserves to be so high, and I don't understand why Miguel Cabrera is at 14, he definitely deserves to be in the top ten.
 

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
Pujols and Doc being 1 and 2 doesn't surprise me. I like Alex Gonzalez, I agree he's a hell of a player. But #3 in MLB? I'd probably put him just outside the top 10 and Cabrera inside the top 10. I thought John Lester would be a little higher. Closer to where Cliff Lee is.
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
A lot of this depends on when the list was written. For instance, did he know that A-Gone was off to a good start and the shoulder wasn't going to be an issue? I assume he didn't know about Longoria being hurt.

1. I'd put Felix ahead of Halladay (but not by much).

2. I can understand A-Gone at 3, once you get him out of a crazy pitcher's park, into a hitters park, and surrounded by an awesome lineup. I'd probably move him a bit lower because of positional adjustment (I'd move Shortstops up). But it's not a bad ranking IMO.

3. I would put Hanley a bit higher because of positional adjustment. Maybe Tulo, but the park adjustment thing makes it harder.

4. Braun is probably a bit too high because he's a defensive liability.

5. Utley was overrated, even before we knew how bad the injury may be. Maybe shuoldn't even be on the list.

6. Cabrera is a big question mark. Was this article written when we had just found out about more details of Cabrera's latest drunken rampage? If so, then it's completely understandable, in fact, I might have gone even lower. I was worried he would face some jail time. But once the season started? He definitely should be a bit higher.

7. Cain and Greinke shouldn't make the list.

8. CarGo and Prince Fielder need to be on the list. Josh Johnson should probably be on the list. Pedroia should probably be on the list.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Can you share your thoughts why you think Felix belongs ahead of Roy Halladay, even if you say it's only by a little bit. I'm a huge Felix fan, but there's no way in my opinion that he's better than Doc.

I also disagree with your opinion with Utley he definitely belongs on this list. Not only is he a good hitter, but he's a great defensive player.

It's unbelievable how you overrate CarGo, he's definitely helped by the Rockies ballpark.
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
Can you share your thoughts why you think Felix belongs ahead of Roy Halladay, even if you say it's only by a little bit. I'm a huge Felix fan, but there's no way in my opinion that he's better than Doc.
They both put up monstrous years, and are both a pretty safe bet to do so again. But Felix is just entering his prime, and Halladay is about to turn 34. Felix does pitch in a pitchers' park, but he also put up slightly better numbers, and is facing the AL which has the DH.

I also disagree with your opinion with Utley he definitely belongs on this list. Not only is he a good hitter, but he's a great defensive player.
I'd agree if he wasn't a big injury risk who's already out for who-knows-how-long. As the article says, he was saying that it was his goal to play at all this season. Maybe it was just a poor choice of words, but there's a reason he didn't get picked until the end of round 15 in our draft (which is the 105th player taken).

His Batting Average and Slugging have both gone down every year since 2007.

It's unbelievable how you overrate CarGo, he's definitely helped by the Rockies ballpark.
Sure, he was helped by it. And he was also way too lucky last year. But he's also a 5 tool CFer who gets taken in the first round of leagues that don't even care about CFers VS corner OFers. Do you really think he was helped that much more than all of his other teammates (like Tulo, who's also on the list)? I'm not saying he's a top 10 player, but I do think he's top 32.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
They both put up monstrous years, and are both a pretty safe bet to do so again. But Felix is just entering his prime, and Halladay is about to turn 34. Felix does pitch in a pitchers' park, but he also put up slightly better numbers, and is facing the AL which has the DH.
Doc Halladay has gotten better by age, and like I've said for the last few seasons when people bring his age up, I don't believe it's a factor at all. 34 years-old isn't all that old, even for a pitcher. Halladay knows how to locate the ball really well, and he can still blow it by people. Don't get me wrong Felix is a stud, and he's put up incredible numbers last year, but I rather have Halladay this year and most likely the year after.

I'd agree if he wasn't a big injury risk who's already out for who-knows-how-long. As the article says, he was saying that it was his goal to play at all this season. Maybe it was just a poor choice of words, but there's a reason he didn't get picked until the end of round 15 in our draft (which is the 105th player taken).
I agree with you, but when healthy I think it's a pretty safe bet that he belongs in the top 32 players in the Major Leagues.


Sure, he was helped by it. And he was also way too lucky last year. But he's also a 5 tool CFer who gets taken in the first round of leagues that don't even care about CFers VS corner OFers. Do you really think he was helped that much more than all of his other teammates (like Tulo, who's also on the list)? I'm not saying he's a top 10 player, but I do think he's top 32.
I'm not sure, and I can't find the numbers right now but I think Tulo's home/away split numbers were far better than CarGo. Also Tulo is a five tool player himself and I would take him before Carlos anyday of the week, and twice on Sunday's. Yes, he's helped by playing in Colorado, but the guy is is one of the best shortstop in the Major Leagues.
 

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
I love Felix, the guy is incredible. And I can see the argument for his age versus Doc's age. But I think based on who is the better player for 2011, not who would you pick for the next 10 years, Doc is the better pick. I wouldn't even have a problem with Doc being #1, ahead of Pujols. The guy's location is insane.
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
Doc Halladay has gotten better by age, and like I've said for the last few seasons when people bring his age up, I don't believe it's a factor at all. 34 years-old isn't all that old, even for a pitcher. Halladay knows how to locate the ball really well, and he can still blow it by people. Don't get me wrong Felix is a stud, and he's put up incredible numbers last year, but I rather have Halladay this year and most likely the year after.
His age isn't a big factor, but I see it as kind of a tie-breaker. It probably won't matter, but it might. And when you're predicting the future, all you can go with is things that might matter.

Don't get me wrong, I view them as almost tied. My main point was that Felix shouldn't be like 4 spots lower than Halladay. (And I may be a little biased because I live in Seattle).

I agree with you, but when healthy I think it's a pretty safe bet that he belongs in the top 32 players in the Major Leagues.
But we're going by what he's going to do this year - not what he's capable of doing. And he's clearly not healthy.

I'm not sure, and I can't find the numbers right now but I think Tulo's home/away split numbers were far better than CarGo. Also Tulo is a five tool player himself and I would take him before Carlos anyday of the week, and twice on Sunday's. Yes, he's helped by playing in Colorado, but the guy is is one of the best shortstop in the Major Leagues.
I agree, Tulo is definitely better than CarGo. I'm just saying CarGo should be on the list somewhere. Tulo is the 2nd best SS in MLB and made top 12. CarGo also plays a very important position, but didn't even make top 32.

I'm never sure how to handle home/road splits when they're different from each other. Both players play in COL, so I'm not sure why the park would have a significantly different effect on CarGo than it does on Tulo - unless CarGo is just one of those people who naturally plays better at whatever his home park is. The only time drastically different home/road splits make sense to me is the park favors lefties VS righties or whatever, or if it's like Fenway where a certain type of hitter can take huge advantage of the Green Monster.

I love Felix, the guy is incredible. And I can see the argument for his age versus Doc's age. But I think based on who is the better player for 2011, not who would you pick for the next 10 years, Doc is the better pick.
Halladay wouldn't stand a chance if we were talking about for the next 10 years :lol:

I can see picking Halladay over Felix for this year. I would never tell someone they're wrong to do so. I just think Felix is a little better.

I wouldn't even have a problem with Doc being #1, ahead of Pujols. The guy's location is insane.
Whoa, there turbo! Let's get ahead of ourselves. Halladay is amazing - Pujols is LEGENDARY. There's a good chance he'll surpass Lou Gehrig as the best 1st baseman of all time in a few years.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Whoa, there turbo! Let's get ahead of ourselves. Halladay is amazing - Pujols is LEGENDARY. There's a good chance he'll surpass Lou Gehrig as the best 1st baseman of all time in a few years.
We've had this topic a few times here at GF, and it's a tough debate that's for sure. Even though Pujols as had a great start to his career I think he still has ways to go to reach Gehrig's career. Here's some numbers to look at.

After the 2009 season.
Code:
.       [B]G   PA    R   H   2B  3B  HR   RBI   BB  SO   BA   OBP  SLG OPS+ SB CS[/B]
Gehrig 1384 6157 1213 1786 362 125 299 1285  898  550 .342 .442 .638 181  72 81
Pujols 1399 6082 1071 1717 387 14  366 1112  811  570 .334 .427 .628 172  61 30
Foxx   1411 5932 1105 1690 289 87  343 1218  886  763 .339 .440 .639 172  61 45 
Thomas 1371 6091  968 1564 317 10  301 1040 1076  741 .320 .440 .573 169  28 18
After the 2010 season:
Code:
.       [B]G   PA    R   H   2B  3B  HR   RBI   BB  SO   BA   OBP  SLG OPS+ SB CS[/B]
Gehrig 1538 6847 1431 1966 402 131 348 1450 1007  581 .344 .444 .643 183  81 85
Pujols 1558 6782 1186 1900 426 15  408 1230  914  646 .331 .426 .624 172  75 34
Foxx   1561 6605 1216 1852 313 93  379 1345  985  859 .334 .435 .628 167  71 54 
Thomas 1550 6877 1091 1770 364 10  348 1093 1198  847 .319 .439 .577 167  29 21
As of right now Pujols isn't there, he might be one day but he'll need at least two more MVP calibre seasons, which is highly possible. If anyone can get some defensive numbers for these two people that would be tremendous.

Also I think it's pretty safe to put Halladay in almost legendary status. Even if he doesn't reach 300 wins for his career, I think he has a chance to be top ten pitcher of all time.
 
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CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
My point, Wade, is this is about who is the best player right now, which is why I pick Doc over Felix. And its also why I can see the argument for Doc over Pujols. Not that he definitely is or not that Pujols might be the best first basement of all time. But who is the best player just right now.

I will say Pujols is my favorite player and would be my pick if I were starting a franchise, but I wouldn't blame someone if their pick was Doc instead.
 
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