Lou's Corner

#3
Records arn't ment to be held, they are ment to be broken. If there was an "un-breakable" record, and it was truly un-breakable, there would be no need for performance. Barry's records will be broken in their own time. Just as Babe's was. I thought his record was "un-breakable," so instead of the ghost of Babe, we're gonna have the ghost of Barry? Doesn't sound quite as....epic?

While I can't deny that the guy loves baseball, he even admits he's no expert. These are just speculations of a man with a passion for the game. The margin that Barry beat McGuire was less than 10, that can easily be accomplished. Perhaps a better debate on this would be steriods, but let's not get into that. Thats messy.

Margins don't mean anything, while the game "stays the same" it evolves. The players evolve, and it continues to change. Some of the records were set in the dead ball era, and now we have records set in the "steroid era" and post-steroid era. The fact is, the training that goes on now, is different (and better) than then, and it will continue to evolve. Soon enough someone else is going to come along, and be the one to break the "sacred" record.
 

Hoosier_Daddy

Registered Member
#4
Okay, Sui, please tell me what it's going to take for someone to break Cy Young's win record. I don't see how it can be done with the way the game is played today.


Hoosier.
 

SHOELESSJOE3

Registered Member
#5
Barry not only broke records -- the records he set exceeded the old records by so much, they will never be broken. Take a look.


http://www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/lougehrigisback
Harold you heap all kinds of praise on Barry, much of it deserved but evenst in recent years though they ( his numbers) go in the book as such will always be suspect to many baseball fans.

Here was a certain Hall of Fame player and then he casts doubt on his numbers by association with a known steroid provider, though he says he never gave barry steroids. Speaking of Barry's personal trainer Greg Anderson. I will say we can't just convict Barry because of his closeness to Greg.

I find Barry's statement "I never knowingly used steroids" amusing. Could it be that Barry and his attorney are building a case for the future. That, if it is proven he did use steroids he shouldn't be held responsible, he was lied to by his supplier, thats funny.

You speak of Barry breaking Ruth's seasonal slugging but he is not even smelling Ruth's career .690 slugging or Ted Williams .634. Barry is at .608 and has no chance at matching Ruth or Ted.

Barry you mention holds the seasonal OBA .582 but again his career OBA is at .445 and will never catch Williams career .482 or Ruth's .474

Easier to excel in one year performances than to hold the higher number over a career, many years. A shame that this already great player will always have that cloud hanging over him, possible steroid use.

How does a hitter after age 35 suddenly explode. Putting up numbers over a 4 year period while age 36-39 that rival any 4 year period put up by a young Babe Ruth and a young Ted Williams. No wonder eye brows were raised.
 
L

LouGehrig

Guest
#6
his homerun record will most likely be broken by a-rod...unless somehow a-rod gets injured.
Lifetime but not single season of 73.

Harold you heap all kinds of praise on Barry, much of it deserved but evenst in recent years though they ( his numbers) go in the book as such will always be suspect to many baseball fans.

Here was a certain Hall of Fame player and then he casts doubt on his numbers by association with a known steroid provider, though he says he never gave barry steroids. Speaking of Barry's personal trainer Greg Anderson. I will say we can't just convict Barry because of his closeness to Greg.

I find Barry's statement "I never knowingly used steroids" amusing. Could it be that Barry and his attorney are building a case for the future. That, if it is proven he did use steroids he shouldn't be held responsible, he was lied to by his supplier, thats funny.

You speak of Barry breaking Ruth's seasonal slugging but he is not even smelling Ruth's career .690 slugging or Ted Williams .634. Barry is at .608 and has no chance at matching Ruth or Ted.

Barry you mention holds the seasonal OBA .582 but again his career OBA is at .445 and will never catch Williams career .482 or Ruth's .474

Easier to excel in one year performances than to hold the higher number over a career, many years. A shame that this already great player will always have that cloud hanging over him, possible steroid use.

How does a hitter after age 35 suddenly explode. Putting up numbers over a 4 year period while age 36-39 that rival any 4 year period put up by a young Babe Ruth and a young Ted Williams. No wonder eye brows were raised.
You are correct in just about all of the above. The problem is the frustration that exists based on the lack of knowlege with respect to Barry's feats.

The question is about supplements or performance enhancing substances, one which can be certain steroid compounds. At this time, we must accept what has been accomplished because no proof exists that Barry did anything other than he says he did.

What is so great is that despite the "career surge" after 35, Ruth is still so superior statistically to Barry.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
#7
Some records will be broken and some others will not be broken. Hoosier you used Cy Young for an example. I highly doubt that anyone will ever break his record of most wins by a pitcher. I have a lot of trouble thinking someone is going to reach 300 wins again. The game is so much different since Cy Young's era, you got relief pitchers now, you have more rest, and you don't pitch three to four times a week like they used to do.

Now some of Barry's records will be broken and some might not, but I don't believe that his all time home run total will stand for much longer. There's so many players that have a chance to break it, and if A Rod stays healthy he'll probably beat it, and I'm sure that someone else will come along and break his record. Some records will stand forever and some others will be broken that's just how it works.
 

SHOELESSJOE3

Registered Member
#8
Lifetime but not single season of 73.



You are correct in just about all of the above. The problem is the frustration that exists based on the lack of knowlege with respect to Barry's feats.

The question is about supplements or performance enhancing substances, one which can be certain steroid compounds. At this time, we must accept what has been accomplished because no proof exists that Barry did anything other than he says he did.

What is so great is that despite the "career surge" after 35, Ruth is still so superior statistically to Barry.[/quote]

Agreed it's still Ruth over Barry. I pointed out the surge put on by Barry, a surge that is unmatched by any hitter ever in the history of the game after age 35 as the example that caused some to wonder how, at that age. If you compare Barry's career numbers from when he started 1986 up to 2000 and compared them to his numbers form 2001 to 2004 it will show that he some how turned into superman at an age when most level off or decline.

His numbers from 2001-2004 showed he nearly cut his AB/HR ratio in half and in those 4 seasons his slugging percentage was 242 points higher than it was from 1986 to 2000. True the 2001-2004 is a much smaller sample but not that small that it can't be considered. Add to that it was maintained for 4 seasons not just a one season burst and at the age of 36 to 39.

---------------Slugging--------AB/HR ratio
1986-2000-----.567-------------15.09
2001-2004-----.809--------------7.86

That leap, that late in a career is off the chart. The point I was trying to get across in my previous post was that it was this monster leap that caused some to wonder.

I do agree at this time there has been no positive proof and if MLB has it's way there never wil be any, if in deed there was steroid use. This is the last thing Bud Selig wanted to happen, another possible black eye for the game. I'm sure Bud just can't wait till the whole deal goes away.