Loss of Values

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Boredie, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. Boredie

    Boredie In need of Entertainment

    After reading Eli's thread about pictures of your mother I got to thinking just what people think of society's values of today.

    Examples:
    why is it ok to know/accept there might be nude photos of your mother roaming the internet?
    Or why is it ok to have sex with any amount of people regardless of loving feelings? (I find it kind of loses the intimate appeal sex should have).

    Do you feel society is continuously losing important values?
     

  2. Bananas

    Bananas Endangered Species

    I put it down to that many of the values themselves were artificial to begin with.

    You express that it sould be intimate, is it the act itself that is intimate or the person you do it with what makes it intimate? If for some unknown reason you could not have sex with your partner would your relationship loose its intamacy? ....of course I dont expect you to answer these... Its just I remember seeing a program about the psychology of swinging(yes a documentary, nothing smutty), that challenged these values and the general response was that as long as the partner stayed intimate with each other everything else was only sex. there was an analogy on it that made me laugh, a female said and I'll paraphrase "My husband is the main course, it tastes good and is full of substance, but for the dessert I wont choose them for the nutritional values".

    Anyway, me, I dont think times are changing that the values are being lost, I think for some reason we have installed this romantic victorian notion that people have and always were prim and proper, I dont think we (as a whole) ever were.

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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
  3. EllyDicious

    EllyDicious made of AMBIGUITY V.I.P. Lifetime

    well....it really depends on what each of us mean by "value" because what is a value to you and me may not be a value to someone else.
    for example, the virginity used to be a value but not anymore now. this doesn't mean the virginity turned into and anti-value but it's not a value either because people don't give it the importance of a value.

    so, for some it's ok to accept nude pictures...but for some others it's not.
    what i can say is that values have changed...and the things we used to see as valuable are not like that anymore ... and sometimes it seems that i don't know what is a value today and what not because people tend to make everything seem normal and put everything on the same level.

    so yes, imo, society is continuously losing [what you and me call] values....
     
  4. Boredie

    Boredie In need of Entertainment

    I can see you are right in what you say. Being prim and proper in the past was for show for society, but it never stopped people acting the way they wanted to behind the scenes, so to speak.
    People never really believe in those values in the first place if they ignored them behind society's back.
    I can see now, that basically society has come to the conclusion that there's no point in hiding behind social values if they never really believe in them in the first place.
     
  5. Bjarki

    Bjarki Registered Member

    I don't agree with you on that one. If it were true people would not have felt so guilty/dirty/perverse/sinful as they did in the 19th century.
    The influence of a society on its individual members is huge. In our 'value-less' time this applies as well (see Cons' thread about pressure on males). Even though, on a rational level, we can choose to disagree with certain stereotypes, they will not cease to influence our daily behaviour in relationship to others. Fitting in with the group is for most more important than personal convinctions.

    ===

    I don't think our current society is valueless though, it's merely that the focus has changed due to science. All things that were traditionally important have been subjected to analysis and compared with similar systems worldwide and throughout history ('historicism').

    For example, I'm reading a book now on religious psychology. In order to be science this branch of psychology can only occupy itself with the rational, emotional forces in an individual that leads to religious thought and acting. The religion and God itself are thus studied as 'mirrors' of man and his conciousness. You can see how this must almost naturally lead to viewing God as a man-made product.
    Furthermore, the various religious practices that are studied (worldwide) take away the belief that one's own beliefs and practices are more worthy than orthers.. more true than others.
    It's hard not to resort to relativism in these cases (and thus the undermining of traditional values).

    Nevertheless, science creates its own values. It decides for us what is right and what is wrong, what is healthy and what is perverse/abnormal (the whole DSM-criteria). I think today's society is by all those classed as 'different' experienced as equally conservative or repressive as that of the 19th century.

    At times I wish we were religious still. Nowadays we have no regards anymore for moral behaviour. With the books of science held in our hands we justify our 'all-too-natural'-behaviour and feel no urge anymore to transcend to a higher level of being..

    Well that applies to most of mankind.
    I believe there are still plenty of individuals who wish to give meaning to their life, who strive to become like the √úbermensch, standing high above the vulgarity and simplicity of common folks, in eternal self-reflection.
    Do the great mystics not teach us that man instinctively craves for the heavens?



    I think I was a priest in former times.. I can't help but *:blah:* in a most melodramatic manner.. :melodramatic:
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
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  6. Bananas

    Bananas Endangered Species

    What makes you think people were?

    By that I mean every major city has a red light district, every major city always has had a red light district, and in the 19th century probably more so than now. Another example might be the daguerreotype, within months of it being made public, pornography had become extremely popular and is in someways responsible for kick starting the photographic society. A modern case study would be the internet and the pornographic revolution that came with that. Were they that different from us?

    The reason people felt and still often feel dirty and perverse was because for a half a millenia religion (mainly Christianity***) had chastised pleasure, that is in essence the value. If you look at what the Romans and Greeks were up to before Christianity made everything a sin and then look at how at the age of enlightenment suddenly people had this new found freedom that would lead right upto with the sexual revolution of the 60's you kind of have to question the value of some values.

    ***lets point the finger; Thomas Aquinas he is the one who is largely responsible for making society prudish.

    That depends on your morality. Just because society has become more permisive does not make morals diminish. I think we are more morally responsible now than we were in the 19th century. The only real difference being is we are less repressive and more accepting now enabling what remianed hidden be shown. As those dark secrets have surface they are nolonger so dark or secret, and society as a whole takes the moral responsibility.
     
  7. Major

    Major 4 legs good 2 legs bad V.I.P.

    I don't think I agree with that. So you believe having sex with other people would not be considered cheating on your partner since it's only sex?
     
  8. Kibi

    Kibi Babeasaurus Sex

    I personally feel that having sex with someone is like giving away a bit of yourself. The idea of having sex with someone that I don't care about and am in a relationship with doesn't hold with me.

    I love the experimentation and exploration that comes with making love, It's the only thing that is ever going to be truly unique to different relationships...even if its the same arguments or whatever.

    I think values are just COMPLETELY different to when I was growing up. People are now happy if their child isn't on drugs or pregnant by the age of 17 because that is seen as an acheivement. Wierd. Shows like Jerry Springer and Jeremy Kyle have helped push them down though....

    :)
     
  9. Boredie

    Boredie In need of Entertainment

    So you are saying that religion is what brought values upon society?
    But these days these values are not regarded as anything because it came from religion based ideas. So these values were rejected because religion was rejected.
    Yet the Greeks and Romans at some point accepted Christianity. How were they able to give up all the things they enjoyed as a religion-free society?
     
  10. Bananas

    Bananas Endangered Species

    No, I was paraphrasing a swinger.

    My view is that intimacy does not require sex, or, vice-versa. It is like when people call it "making love", Im of the view that practically every aspect of a relationship is the making of love, not just sex. If Im to expand, Im actually of the opinion too much onus is placed on sex and this is responsible for many insecurities in people and the relationships they have.

    Heres a though th for you; Can you love someone and not have sex with them? Can you have sex with someone and not love them?

    Yep, religion brought about a lot of the present day values. In the west Christian values have dominated fro centuries until the thought of near death under the MAD programs of the 60's made large portions of socitety throw caution to the wind and search for new means of spirituality.

    I dont beleive they did give it up all together. I m of the opinion there has always been an element of society who has enjoyed the pleasures of life, perhaps they have not been mainstream or as well documented but I do believ they existed. But to answer your question the main reason they gave up was persecution due to devout people having a large degree of influence. In the west we have canonical laws, our values have been shaped around what the priests and cardinals decreed.

    Its the same for most societies, and I found this article on the practices of some of the indigenous Australians pracitces and values. Its an interesting (and shocking) read that does provide some insight into our own values.
    Link
     

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