Logic & Belief

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by EllyDicious, Nov 18, 2009.

  1. EllyDicious

    EllyDicious made of AMBIGUITY V.I.P. Lifetime

    What is logic? What is belief? (to you)
    Which is the relationship between the two?
    Which one is included in the other?
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009

  2. ExpectantlyIronic

    ExpectantlyIronic e̳̳̺͕ͬ̓̑̂ͮͦͣ͒͒h̙ͦ̔͂?̅̂ ̾͗̑

    Logic is the art of keeping thoughts in order, and beliefs are thoughts you would act on. Logic can help someone develop justified beliefs, but is insufficient in itself for acquiring a well-developed understanding of things.
  3. EllyDicious

    EllyDicious made of AMBIGUITY V.I.P. Lifetime

    When you say logic is insufficient in itself to understand things, belief is the other half that helps the understanding, or you refer to knowledge?
  4. ExpectantlyIronic

    ExpectantlyIronic e̳̳̺͕ͬ̓̑̂ͮͦͣ͒͒h̙ͦ̔͂?̅̂ ̾͗̑

    They say knowledge is justified true belief, so both in a way.
  5. EllyDicious

    EllyDicious made of AMBIGUITY V.I.P. Lifetime

    so from what you say, logic comes after the beliefs. you organize your logic according to your beliefs-which means logic is included in beliefs...
    though, is it possible for me to call illogical something i believe in?
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  6. Wade8813

    Wade8813 Registered Member

    Logic comes in two forms; inductive and deductive. A sound deductive argument MUST be true, by definition. Inductive logic is a guess based on available information (sometimes a flimsy guess, sometimes a very likely guess).

    Beliefs are more or less inductive reasoning.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  7. FindMuck

    FindMuck Registered Member

    Logic is using past experiences or results to come to a conclusion about something. Belief is your moral stance on whether something is ethical or not.

    In a situation you may have more than one logical action to take to resolve that situation, but your belief may force you to ignore one of those logical ways of resolving the situation because you don't believe that that action would be ethical, even if it is logical.
  8. ExpectantlyIronic

    ExpectantlyIronic e̳̳̺͕ͬ̓̑̂ͮͦͣ͒͒h̙ͦ̔͂?̅̂ ̾͗̑

    You need something to apply logic to. That could be beliefs, ideas, hypotheticals, symbols, numbers, etc; but your logic is only as good as what you put into it. There is an old saying amongst computer programmers that goes, "garbage in, garbage out." Most beliefs in and of themselves are neither logical nor illogical. They only appear to be either in light of other beliefs.

    As for whether you can honestly call something you believe 'illogical', I really can't say. I could argue either way on that one. It really depends on what precisely you would be intended to convey by saying that.
  9. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    - This is actually an extremely deep question that isn't that apparent on the surface. This is precisely because logic is kind of like the background tool that we use to gain knowledge. For instance, one uses logic when studying physics. One uses logic when studying biology. One especially uses logic when studying math. But one necessarily uses logic when studying and inquiring about logic itself! So, inquiring about the nature of logic is kind of like a ruler trying to measure itself. The process of study (the inquiry) would have to be logical (otherwise it is pointless), which means you would have to inquire about the nature of the inquiry, and of that inquiry, ad infinitum.

    That's the deep "answer". On the surface, one could simply say that logic is the study of, or tool for, sound argument and reasoning.

    - I believe that belief is...

    ^^^^^ Can you see how that is reflexive? We all know what it is to believe something. A belief is a proposition that one holds to be true to the point that one lives according to that proposition. But, unfortunately, that does not truly capture the nature of belief, because one can easily believe something and not live accordingly. Even if you look up the word "believe" in a dictionary it will simply use synonyms like "faith" and "conviction" in its definition. It is doubtless, though, that we all know what the word means. Explaining it is superfluous, not to mention futile.

    - I would say that one necessarily believes in that which one finds to be most logical. If something seemed absolutely ridiculous and in no way based on reality, then my mind would not be able to believe it. But, this is not to say that one believes in everything that one finds logical. I can find an argument to be very logical, but that doesn't mean I believe it. So the relationship is difficult to pinpoint exactly.

    Edit: I think it also depends heavily on contradictions. If a statement is self-contradictory (i.e. illogical), I doubt anybody would believe that statement to be true. But if one can follow a pattern of truths and from those truths make a deduction that must be true, then there is every reason to believe in that deduction.

    - There is no inclusion involved. The two are separate, but are linked. What is believed is based (Edit: loosely based) on what one finds logical.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  10. Shikimi_Farkash

    Shikimi_Farkash Registered Member

    Logic is the process by which we figure things out. Using logic, we form our beliefs, but we also use our beliefs when working with logic. You can't really have one without the other.

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