Let's do this: Illegal Immigration

Discussion in 'Politics & Law' started by Merc, Apr 29, 2010.

  1. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    The current thread in this section is about Arizona's current attempt to curb illegal immigration but I figured I'd start a general one because it's an issue that continues to baffle me. Simply put:

    Why is it even arguable that a person who breaks international law shouldn't be deported or detained and eventually returned to their country of origin?

    It's a law. Enter the country legally. Why is that so hard to grasp? Oh, the poor guy has no money in his country and he's got a wife and kids and he has a cute little dog named Loco and his mother is sick and, and, and . . and please give me a goddamn break. We've all got problems, especially within our own country. I understand the impulse to help those less fortunate but how about we start with the people in our own country? Nothing good comes from illegal immigration outside of that immigrants' family. Sure, that may be enough for some of you but also realize that a job he/she takes is one that doesn't go to an American. Yes, some of us are lazy slobs that won't take "lower jobs" but there are plenty of people that still take what they can get and if they can't get a decent job because Juan just hopped the border and will do a day's work for a buck fifty, that's a serious problem.

    Legal immigration = awesome.

    We want you here, we want you to make a better life, we really do. Some people in this country are just flat out racist and don't want certain people to continue to grow in numbers. Most of us are not like them, we just want legal immigration and it's flat out confusing to see how so many people can defend all these criminals (that's what they are whether you want to believe it or not, they did willingly break federal law, there's no dancing around it) just because of a few sob stories. It would be spectacular if we could do something for them but we do have to watch after our own first. It's not selfish, it's how you run a successful country. Keep your own people protected and effective and then worry more about the rest because it's just common logic: If you don't have a country full of working, happy people then how the hell can you help anyone else?

    To me, legal immigration needs just as much reform as illegal immigration. It can be a pain in the ass to get here and I know that. However that doesn't make illegal immigration okay. I just don't know why it's such an issue and I've yet to hear a real convincing argument otherwise.

    Thoughts?
     

  2. Blueyes

    Blueyes Registered Member

    Coming from the healthcare point of view of this, they all need to be shipped back because not 1 single person can get any sort of healthcare in this country if they are illegal. Every single country but ours has a centralized healthcare system of some sort or another INCLUDING Mexico. They just won't give their centralized healthcare to people who don't pay into the countries tax system which makes sense. That seems to be a personal problem then to me #1, and #2 just because you don't like it down there doesn't mean you get free shit up here. But the irony of that is that they do. Take this one child we have been dialyzing for free, yep for FREE for at least 2 months because they can't get insurance because every last one of the family are illegal and we even found a hospital down in Mexico that will dialyze them for free as well and they just need to go home. Do you think they did? Hell no, they showed back up in our hospital a few days later after the they were supposed to leave for another treatment which is free to them. We are having to eat these costs and those treatments aren't cheap.

    Another thing that infuriates me is the fact that they won't learn english. If they plan on staying here illegally why not learn the damn language. I'm not going to bend over backwards to learn theirs especially since I'm not the foreigner. When I moved to Germany I learned the language. It was only right since I was the foreigner.
     
  3. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    I have to start off by saying I find any comments about HAVING to learn English to be racially insensitive and offensive. The Constitution protects my right to speak whatever language I please. Locally I keep hearing comments like those and people that get offended when they hear Spanish. Anytime I am out in public whether it be in line at the grocery store, at a restaurant with my family or whatever I speak to my family in Spanish. The other day I was in line at the grocery store and my wife and I spoke only Spanish to each other and just a little loud just to irk people. Don't like it? I really couldn't care less.

    Back to the topic, I agree 100% with the OP. People are getting really upset over the new Arizona law while ignoring the fact that it is targeting those who are breaking the law to begin with. I empathize with many who are over here just trying to find work that hardly pays shit and trying to stay alive, I mean hell, they're my people. But the soveriegn of the US HAS to be respected.

    I am 100% for legal immigration. I don't have a problem with any law enforcement entity cracking down on illegal immigration.
     
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  4. Blueyes

    Blueyes Registered Member

    speaking to people who know the language isnt the issue, its the people who dont know the language when they arrive at our hospital expecting us to bed over backwards to find a translator which are far and few so we can all communicate. our hospital actually is the only one in the area that has paid translators. The other hospitals are on a fend for yourself kind of deal so if the person doesnt come in speaking english or having someone who can translate they are SOL essentially
     
  5. Wade8813

    Wade8813 Registered Member

    I agree with CO's post 100% (except they're not my people, and I don't speak enough Spanish to matter, but other than that... :lol:).

    I'll admit, there have been times when I've thought that people coming here should learn English - although not as something they must do, but as common sense if they plan to interact with English speakers frequently for the rest of their lives.

    I would also point out that we only sort of sometimes want people here - hence the reason so many come over illegally.
     
  6. Nevyrmoore

    Nevyrmoore AKA Ass-Bandit

    The problem isn't speaking in private. Want to have a private conversation in another language? Fine by me, you could speak in native African tribal tongues for all I care. The problem comes from when you expect to integrate with society, but only speak your native language and not that society's native language.

    I don't really expect to get by and get a job in, say, rural Spain, if I only speak English. And if I do, I can expect to be treated like a child and only get a shit pay because I can't communicate well enough to get the best jobs. The same applies here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2010
  7. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    I always encourage people who come to the US to learn English, you will be held back if you don't. I just object to HAVING to learn the language.
    ------
    I agree with you, the thing is expecting to integrate in society. If I don't know English it would be EXTREMELY difficult for me to obtain any kind formal education in the US and that's my problem. I just don't think I should HAVE to learn English.

    Let me add requesting services is a completely different matter. If someone came to me seeking legal help and spoke little to no English and his/her language was "foreign" I'd do my best to help that person and not demand they come into my office speaking English only.
    ------
    I honestly cannot think of much I find more disgusting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2010
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  8. Jeanie

    Jeanie still nobody's bitch V.I.P. Lifetime

    The bottom line is this - no one would be crossing the border to come to the US to work if they were not certain they'd find work in the U.S. Why are employers who hire illegal immigrants not being fined and prosecuted? Why are we going after those who are only doing what any of us would do - trying to make a better life for themselves and their families?

    If employers would obey employment laws, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
     
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  9. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    But they're not all hiring illegals specifically. Some companies just do a really poor job of checking someone's background. It's why a lot of places will run credit reports on potential employees, to get a better idea of who they are. I do agree that corporations should be held more accountable (and they are when they're caught most definitely) but you're forgetting that these companies would not be able to hire them if they weren't sneaking into the country in the first place. People don't illegally immigrate here because they know companies are evil and will hire them at minimum wage, they just know there's a better chance of finding work here than in their country.
     
  10. Jeanie

    Jeanie still nobody's bitch V.I.P. Lifetime

    If a liquor store consistently sells to minors, do we go after the minors who shop there because they know they can buy there? No, we after the liquor store and take away its license.

    It's not that difficult to check a person's immigration status when hiring them. But day laborers know that they can line up outside a construction office/landscaper/dry waller etc. and get a job because they know that the employer would rather pay a lower wage than hire from a Union pool or other legitimate source of legal workers. By hiring illegals at a lower wage, employers save themselves some money, but that saving comes at a huge cost to everyone in the U.S. If you want to own a business then you have to factor fair wages into the cost of doing business. There's no excuse for hiring an illegal worker.
     

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