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Kid Rock’s use of Confederate flag sparks NAACP boycott

Jeanie

still nobody's bitch
V.I.P.
Yes MiT, the protest is against the NAACP because they are giving an honor to kis rock. Some think that because he displays the flag at his concert he does not deserve to be honored by the NAACP.
I can see where some people would think that. Like I said, the Confederate Flag has different meanings to different people. To an organization such as the NAACP, it's offensive and everyone knows that. Whether you agree that it's offensive is beside the point. The organization that is giving him an award finds it offensive yet he displayed it anyway, which is pretty much a slap in the face to that organization.
 

SmilinSilhouette

Registered Member
I can see where some people would think that. Like I said, the Confederate Flag has different meanings to different people. To an organization such as the NAACP, it's offensive and everyone knows that. Whether you agree that it's offensive is beside the point. The organization that is giving him an award finds it offensive yet he displayed it anyway, which is pretty much a slap in the face to that organization.
He has displayed it for a long time, long before the NAACP decided to give him the award. Are we to live our lives to placate the perpetually offended? If I feel it is offensive to show your teeth, should people stop smiling? Or should everyone just laugh at me for having ridiculous expectations that everyone should accommodate my preferences?
 

Jeanie

still nobody's bitch
V.I.P.
He has displayed it for a long time, long before the NAACP decided to give him the award. Are we to live our lives to placate the perpetually offended? If I feel it is offensive to show your teeth, should people stop smiling? Or should everyone just laugh at me for having ridiculous expectations that everyone should accommodate my preferences?
your arguments are completely ridiculous and your analogy fails. It's not as though there's no reason to be offended by the Confederate Flag. We all know that it's used as a symbol of racism - not always but by some.

Nobody has to do anything to placate anyone. If some people wish to boycott the awards dinner, it's their right to do so. They're not asking anyone to accommodate them, their just not participating in an awards dinner because they feel Kid Rock is not deserving of the award.
 

Ilus_Unistus

Registered Member
Hahaha, do you know Kid Rock started out as a rapper? I have seen him play at bars and met him a few times before he got big time. IMHO He was much better back then.
Actually SS, KR stared as a DJ then moved into re-writing lyrics for songs with Uncle Cracker lol. Im not a huge fan, but Ive liked many of his songs.

If groups like neo-Nazi's, KKK use this flag as a symbol of bigotry or oppression, it is understandable it may be offensive to some. But I do not think KR supports any of these types of groups, tho I have not looked, I just do not see him as this type of person.

For another question, did these groups adopt the confederate flag, or was there these thoughts in the making of the flag? I know in the civil war there was issue of slavery, but this was only a small part of the confederates fighting for States rights... I do not think the flag was made to promote slavery or to oppress anyone, I think it was simply made to represent a cause for States rights. I do not know so much of the American Civil war, so maybe I am wrong in this.
 
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qweerblue

Registered Member
I always find the argument that the Civil War was a war over states' rights endlessly fascinating. Call it "states rights" all you want, but does anyone really believe the Civil War would have happened without the existence of slavery? I mean, sure, we can say the Civil War was about states' rights, as long as everyone knows we mean states' rights to own (Black) people as property and to deny any and all rights to such (Black) persons.

There is no argument that can be made in regards to states' rights and the Civil War that does not have slavery at its root.

I find the display of the Confederate Flag to be a repugnant reminder of slavery and of the abhorrent, indefensible treatment of Black people in the United States. I say this as someone whose family hails from the South and who has many family members who sport belt buckles, t-shirts, hats, and flags emblazoned with the Confederate Flag.

As Jeanie said, the Confederate Flag means different things to different people, but there is no escaping the fact that it is the flag used by those states who, fearing the abolition of slavery, chose to secede from the United States. The Confederate Flag was created in 1861 in order to represent those states who seceded out of fear of slavery being abolished at the federal level.

I am willing to argue about states rights and federal power, but I am not willing to pretend that the Civil War was about anything other than slavery. Perhaps the states that chose to secede were correct in their arguments that the federal government did not have the authority to "tell them what to do" regarding the structure of their economy, but the fact remains that it was their desire to ensure that slavery remain protected that led to their secession.
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your arguments are completely ridiculous and your analogy fails. It's not as though there's no reason to be offended by the Confederate Flag. We all know that it's used as a symbol of racism - not always but by some.

Nobody has to do anything to placate anyone. If some people wish to boycott the awards dinner, it's their right to do so. They're not asking anyone to accommodate them, their just not participating in an awards dinner because they feel Kid Rock is not deserving of the award.

Right on, Di! Way to stay logically and rationally on point.

A few other thoughts:

I have no idea if Kid Rock is racist, but I definitely think he's misguided.

I always chuckle at the defense that the Confederate Flag merely represents "Southern Pride". For one thing, what the hell are they so proud of? For another, why is there no similar movement or symbol of Northern Pride or East-Coast Pride or Mid-West Pride? What is this desire, that is only so vehement in Southerners, to root your pride in the region where you were born?

Part of me feels for Southerners, because they are unfairly maligned as a monolith of toothless, ignorant hicks, so, I kind of get why they are so insistent on declaring how very proud they are of themselves, but... I do not waver on how I feel about the Confederate Flag, and if Southerners want a symbol that helps them showcase their pride, I think there are other visual images that could convey that feeling that do not have roots in slavery.
 
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CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
I would argue standing up to the federal government is something to be proud of. Granted I disagree with the South's stance, and to be fair we can't just make the claim the South was full of racists even if they owned slaves. This was something that was ingrained in their culture, that they grew up with and was a very large part of their economic system. That isn't to say there weren't racists though.

Why there isn't the same kind of pride in other parts of the country is probably because of that rebel spirit in the south, and they actually did secede from the country and create their own flag, unlike the other regions you mentioned.

The thing is I may disagree with what the South did and why they did it, but I can relate to their pride. As a minority I don't find the Confederate flag offensive although I know it has been used by groups who do offend. I don't think it's fair to Kid Rock to associate him with those groups based on what we currently know about him.
 

SmilinSilhouette

Registered Member
@ Ilus: No, Uncle Kracker was Kid Rock's DJ. Trust me on this, I used to go see "Twisted Brown Trucker", I saw Kid Rock perform at local bars long before the release of "devil without a cause", he was friends with some friends of mine that used to be a band called "Harm's Way" (they played at my house for a big party, until the cops came and told us to knock it off :lol:), I know that his record label top dog is backwards for pot god, and I have met him personally on many occasions before he hit the big time. Not that he would recognize me, but my buddy, Bob (how Kid Rock introduced himself to us), and I had about a 20 minute conversation one night that he struck up with us when we were signing his mailing list for the Twisted Brown Trucker band.

Kid Rock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@ Jeanie & QB: The confederate flag can mean to you whatever you decide. What you can't decide is what it means to others. Southern rock musicians such as Hank Williams Jr., Lynyrd Skynyrd, and Blackfoot as well as many others see it as a symbol of southern pride and southern rock. To say that the confederate flag means to everyone what it means to you is called projection.
 

Jeanie

still nobody's bitch
V.I.P.
@ Jeanie & QB: The confederate flag can mean to you whatever you decide. What you can't decide is what it means to others. Southern rock musicians such as Hank Williams Jr., Lynyrd Skynyrd, and Blackfoot as well as many others see it as a symbol of southern pride and southern rock. To say that the confederate flag means to everyone what it means to you is called projection.
Did you read my post? I said it has different meanings to different people. To the people who are boycotting the dinner, it's meaning is rooted in racism. I'm not projecting anything, nor am I saying it means to them the same thing that it means to me. I didn't even say what it means to me.
 

qweerblue

Registered Member
I would argue standing up to the federal government is something to be proud of. Granted I disagree with the South's stance, and to be fair we can't just make the claim the South was full of racists even if they owned slaves. This was something that was ingrained in their culture, that they grew up with and was a very large part of their economic system. That isn't to say there weren't racists though.

Why there isn't the same kind of pride in other parts of the country is probably because of that rebel spirit in the south, and they actually did secede from the country and create their own flag, unlike the other regions you mentioned.

The thing is I may disagree with what the South did and why they did it, but I can relate to their pride. As a minority I don't find the Confederate flag offensive although I know it has been used by groups who do offend. I don't think it's fair to Kid Rock to associate him with those groups based on what we currently know about him.
Oh, Cap. You are, hands down, one of my favorite "opponents". You know why? Because even when we disagree, you state your opinions carefully, rationally, and thoughtfully. I always get the idea that you actually read what other folks are writing and that you think about their stance, even if your first inclination might be to disagree. That is an incredibly rare skill and talent, and I have deep respect for your ability and willingness to handle debates this way.

I don't say all that to sugarcoat a rebuttal here--I actually agree with your comment. That is, you're right--I can see how standing up to the federal government could be a source of pride. I think it's difficult for me to separate the reason for the "standing up" from the sheer audacity of the act, but, if I do that, then I can see your point.

You're also right to remind everyone that not every Southerner was a racist--many were not, and the majority did not even own slaves. Of course, that's probably more due to the fact that they could not afford them than because of some opposition to slavery, but still--slave owners were actually a minority in the South, and many Southerners were abolitionists. And, of course, just because the North abolished slavery does not mean that it was free from racism--the North definitely had its share of racists. Of course, as you said, that racism was not as ingrained in Northern culture or in its economy as it was in the South.

And, if I didn't say it, I meant to--I am not in a position to judge whether or not Kid Rock is racist, though I think his flying the Confederate Flag at concerts is misguided, at the least.
 

SmilinSilhouette

Registered Member
Did you read my post? I said it has different meanings to different people. To the people who are boycotting the dinner, it's meaning is rooted in racism. I'm not projecting anything, nor am I saying it means to them the same thing that it means to me. I didn't even say what it means to me.
OK, my bad! But those that project their views are not just not attending, they will be outside protesting. That is really my point, the perpetually offended will be there, outside, protesting. They will use Kid Rock and the honor from the NAACP to draw attention to themselves and their personal interpretation of the meaning of a flag.

Attention horse.
 
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