Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by FutureTrackStar, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    I haven't been on GF for very long, but it seems to me as if there hasn't been a thread solely about Jesus. This thread is for any discussion related to Jesus.

    Ok, so my first question is this: has any other man been able to convince multitudes that he was/is God, i.e. the supreme Creator of the universe, infinite in power, knowledge, love, etc.?

    And, slightly as an aside, for this isn't as pertinent as it could be... what do you think it would take to convince several moderately intelligent people that you are God? I say "moderately intelligent" because Jesus didn't convince a bunch of retards. Luke, for instance, was a physician.

  2. Rebeccaaa

    Rebeccaaa yellow 4!

    Lol no, but Jesus didn't have much luck at the start with convincing people, did he? I mean, it wasn't like he bought them a bunch of daisies and said "hey, I'm your saviour!" They all ridiculed him at first.

    I think you couldn't convince anyone you were God unless you were talking to stupid people oorrr you showed them evidence. Like Jesus apparently performed miracles, that's pretty good evidence even though I personally don't believe it as such.

    I'd argue that Luke being a physician doesn't really have anything to do with it, that's just textbook intelligence and doesn't say anything about his ability to judge on whether someone is God or not. :dunno:
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
  3. SuiGeneris

    SuiGeneris blue 3

    I don't think you could say that anyone has made a multitude of people agree to that. I mean you can alwys say yeah he was nailed to a 'wooden' cross, but people can't seem to agree whether he was just really cool, smart, a prophet, or the savior himself.

    In my opinion, I think it goes down like this: decide for yourself.
    Rebeccaaa likes this.
  4. kcdad

    kcdad Registered Member

    1) Jesus didn't try to convince the world he was God.
    2) Octavian first declared himself "God, God from God, Savior of the World". Jesus, by preaching the anti-imperial message of the Gospel, was given those same titles by his followers. Just as Octavian was not God, neither was Jesus.
    3) Pharaohs have called them selves God. Emperors have called themselves God. Kings have called themselves God. Only insane people call themselves God. Jesus never did. Jesus was a man. He said so.
  5. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    - Ok... well Jesus didn't convince stupid people. You say the only other way would be to show evidence... and then you say you don't believe he did show any evidence. Buuuuut.... he did convince people. Sooo... did he show them evidence? Or did he convince them some other way?

    - I never said Luke was a genius. I was merely pointing out that Luke was probably not a guy who had his head in the clouds, or was too gullible. He was also a historian btw. He was probably quite educated.

    - Ummm.... you mean except Jesus, right?

    - The fact that He was crucified is uncontested by Christian and secular historians alike. There is far more evidence for Jesus' crucifixion than there is for a lot of other history we accept as truth.

    - Ok, kcdad. You reeeeaaallly need to stop talking about stuff you don't know much about.

    - Fact: Jesus did claim to be God, directly and indirectly. He also claimed to be a man.... because He was a man... obviously. But just because He looked like us doesn't mean He was like us on the inside.

    And He may not have gone out of His way to convince people of His divinity, but He most definitely was not afraid to speak His mind about who He really was.

    - Ok. He declared himself to be God. Did/do millions believe him?

    - How is the Gospel anti-imperial? Explain it to me please. I don't think it's anti-imperial at all.

    - You are entitled to your beliefs. But here are a few differences:

    1. Jesus had many followers who were completely convinced He was God.
    2. Jesus was not a government official, or any kind of secular authoritative power. He was a simple carpenter.

    That point makes me want to revise my question. How does a civilian with no government power and no initial popularity convince people that he is God? Pretend that you just met a carpenter who makes a small profit from building tables and chairs and such, and doesn't seem to be all that popular. What would he have to do to convince you that he is God?
  6. Rebeccaaa

    Rebeccaaa yellow 4!

    He did show what some believe to be evidence, I just happen to not believe it myself. That's if it even happened at all.

    I don't mean evidence as in pure hard facts. Well, the followers obviously believed it to be, that that doesn't mean everyone has to.
  7. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    - Soo.... you think He was a magician, like Chris Angel or something, but with a completely different personality? I'm not sure I follow you. You believe He showed evidence that He was God, like miracles and stuff, but you don't believe He actually did?
  8. Rebeccaaa

    Rebeccaaa yellow 4!

    I think that he showed them what they believed to be evidence/proof. I'm not talking about the huge miracles, those are just stories in my opinion. I mean like healing etc.

    What more do you want me to say :dunno:
  9. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    - So, you think they were gullible? Like, He was a just a revolutionary doctor who understood the body, and when they saw His work they suddenly started worshiping Him because they believed He was the creator of the universe?

    What do you think He did/said/taught that made them believe He is the supreme Creator of the universe? Just healed people with medicine?

    I don't mean to be interrogative... I'm just curious :)
  10. Rebeccaaa

    Rebeccaaa yellow 4!

    Meh that's cool, but I'm not going to pretend I know how it went down.

    No, healing was just one example I was giving. Like I said, I'm not well-read in this so I can't be any more specific. And yes, I think they were gullible to some extent. I'm sure you wouldn't be able to convince so easily in this day and age. He had answers and they didn't, so naturally he was followed and over time, trusted.

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